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  1. #16
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by EZridaz View Post
    ...I was planning on doing johnny at the drop brackets and clevite at the axle.
    Using like Andy's uppers?
    2003 WJ Daily Adventuremobile
    1985 MF 250 Tractor (Fixed!!!)
    1999 XJ (in pieces in the driveway)
    1991 Explorer (Cracked Heads)(Stock, for now )
    1989 F150 (In progress-Blown freeze plugs)
    2003 Explorer 1.5" body lift, F150 towhooks, rare OEM skidplates, 265/70-16 Cooper Discoverer AT3's
    1979 K20, (in pieces in the yard) 350, NP465, NP205, Custom Rust Patches
    1970 C30 (tires tore open by bushhog)

  2. #17
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dredwolf View Post
    As mentioned above, the new lowers make the factory uppers look really pathetic.

    So if I replace the uppers, should I go with poly, or johnny joint?

    Just IMHO ... What you use - really depends on what you're dong with the vehicle.


    Everytime the front wheels get a jolt ... the shock is transmitted to the unibody, wafer thin, sheet metal mounting areas ... coz the front suspension, utilises whats really a trailing arm suspension system - which is mounted, back the front.

    Dont get me wrong ... its not a bad design - and it allowed the continued fitting of a live axle, in a world requiring front end crumple rates for "safety" in passenger vehicles ... whereas most others went for IFS and CV joints and stuff...
    It just has limitations requiring some forethought.


    Obviously - how much of a shock depends on vehicle speed at the time and the increased angle of the control arms due to lift requirements.
    Dropboxes or longarms are the best ways to overcome the issues of big lifts .. IMHO



    Rubber is the best shock/vibration absorbing material, as long the rubber is good quality ... unlike a certain brand of leafspring bushes I fitted a while back ..

    Poly comes in various grades ... The yellow and red ones, from my experience ... tend to have all the shock absorbtion/flexing qualities of a piece of steel ...
    ..... altho the soft squishy blue ones Ive used in past vehicles arent bad ....... but I still wouldnt use em in an XJs front control arms.

    PolyEthylene / PolyEurothane / whatever .. ... there some chemistry/compound issues to consider.

    Havent tried johnny joints ... but no doubt they would be a great "flexing" add-on ... altho I suspect they don't do the control arm mounting welds or vehicle handling any favours over time ... in normal high speed driving scenarios.
    Last edited by Carves; 12-09-2012 at 07:52 PM.
    I hate watching simplicity and reliability being ruined by bureaucracy and technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattybPDX
    If my jeep is going to be a grocery getter it's at least going to be a friggin awesome one.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Yea, I would definitely like to get his uppers he is working on to go with the new lowers we got. I'm sure my RE arms will look like chicken legs next to them. I'm hoping the lowers get here sometime this week. I saw that you got yours in about two days. Granted you are the next state away, but I am about a +/- 5hr drive from him so not to bad. So should be here right after he ships them anyway. I just re-read what I wrote earlier and said clevite on the uppers at the axle end...lol. I meant to say just johnny joints on the uppers and clevite on the lowers frame and axle end. The rubber will ride the best and last the longest. Johnny joints are the way to go really on the frame side for the uppers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dredwolf View Post
    Using like Andy's uppers?
    RE 5.5,JCR front bumper,Dirtbound rear bumper, SkidRow Tcase/Engine/Gas skids,Solid diff covers,Currie LCA skids,M.O.R.E. motor mounts,M.O.R.E. steering box brace,Currie steering,rear disc conversion,Ten Factory shafts w/ Spartan,Alloy tube seals,RE 62mm TB,Banks header,2.5" w/high flow cat and Magnaflow,ARB snorkel,H4 conversion,Flowcooler pump,Hesco tstat housing,3 row rad,hood shocks,SYE,Bushwackers, Firepower Kit,CB 10 meter,other junk...

  4. #19
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carves View Post
    Just IMHO ... What you use - really depends on what you're dong with the vehicle.


    Everytime the front wheels get a jolt ... the shock is transmitted to the unibody, wafer thin, sheet metal mounting areas ... coz the front suspension, utilises whats really a trailing arm suspension system - which is mounted, back the front.

    Dont get me wrong ... its not a bad design - and it allowed the continued fitting of a live axle, in a world requiring front end crumple rates for "safety" in passenger vehicles ... whereas most others went for IFS and CV joints and stuff...
    It just has limitations requiring some forethought.


    Obviously - how much of a shock depends on vehicle speed at the time and the increased angle of the control arms due to lift requirements.
    Dropboxes or longarms are the best ways to overcome the issues of big lifts .. IMHO



    Rubber is the best shock/vibration absorbing material, as long the rubber is good quality ... unlike a certain brand of leafspring bushes I fitted a while back ..

    Poly comes in various grades ... The yellow and red ones, from my experience ... tend to have all the shock absorbtion/flexing qualities of a piece of steel ...
    ..... altho the soft squishy blue ones Ive used in past vehicles arent bad ....... but I still wouldnt use em in an XJs front control arms.

    PolyEthylene / PolyEurothane / whatever .. ... there some chemistry/compound issues to consider.

    Havent tried johnny joints ... but no doubt they would be a great "flexing" add-on ... altho I suspect they don't do the control arm mounting welds or vehicle handling any favours over time ... in normal high speed driving scenarios.
    Right on all counts, but I am staying at 4.5-5" for 33's and 4.10/4.11 gearing for the first pass on this XJ, and sticking with short arms.

    I have the same concerns (did poly on a lot of rigs, but you can get durometer specs these days) its why I jumped at the chance for the new lowers Andy introduced. If he does uppers, I will set my back pocket on fire ripping the wallet out.

    I am probably going to pull this axle to box the passenger upper mount, build some lower arm skids, and rebuild the driver side shock mount.
    2003 WJ Daily Adventuremobile
    1985 MF 250 Tractor (Fixed!!!)
    1999 XJ (in pieces in the driveway)
    1991 Explorer (Cracked Heads)(Stock, for now )
    1989 F150 (In progress-Blown freeze plugs)
    2003 Explorer 1.5" body lift, F150 towhooks, rare OEM skidplates, 265/70-16 Cooper Discoverer AT3's
    1979 K20, (in pieces in the yard) 350, NP465, NP205, Custom Rust Patches
    1970 C30 (tires tore open by bushhog)

  5. #20
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dredwolf View Post
    ..... its why I jumped at the chance for the new lowers Andy introduced. If he does uppers, I will set my back pocket on fire ripping the wallet out .....



    ... personally ... I will hate the bloke if he does uppers with "stock" bushes ...

    coz shipping to down here is a killer ...
    I hate watching simplicity and reliability being ruined by bureaucracy and technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattybPDX
    If my jeep is going to be a grocery getter it's at least going to be a friggin awesome one.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carves View Post
    Just IMHO ... What you use - really depends on what you're dong with the vehicle.






    Obviously - how much of a shock depends on vehicle speed at the time and the increased angle of the control arms due to lift requirements.
    Dropboxes or longarms are the best ways to overcome the issues of big lifts .. IMHO



    Rubber is the best shock/vibration absorbing material, as long the rubber is good quality ... unlike a certain brand of leafspring bushes I fitted a while back ..

    Poly comes in various grades ... The yellow and red ones, from my experience ... tend to have all the shock absorbtion/flexing qualities of a piece of steel ...
    ..... altho the soft squishy blue ones Ive used in past vehicles arent bad ....... but I still wouldnt use em in an XJs front control arms.

    PolyEthylene / PolyEurothane / whatever .. ... there some chemistry/compound issues to consider.

    Havent tried johnny joints ... but no doubt they would be a great "flexing" add-on ... altho I suspect they don't do the control arm mounting welds or vehicle handling any favours over time ... in normal high speed driving scenarios.


    Polyurethane, when designed and used properly can actually outperform most other materials. Color is Irrelevant. That's like saying I eat blue icing because its better than red.... When it all came from a white batch and they added food coloring.

    Poly comes in lots of rates of materials and Durometers. I use 88, tough 88, and 95 poly graphite.

    when poly is not pre-loaded properly it will deform and can split. Most suspension companies that use poly do not put enough pre load on the poly because they want the customer to be able to slide the sleeve in place easily when installing. Its lazy in my opinion but you get what you pay for.

    We actually pre load ours with 1/8" oversize tapered sleeves that stay tight and ride really well. They transfer torque and braking really crisply while having a nice ride.

    The factory style rubber rides really nice. It absorbs poor alignment better and tends to be a good band aid for poorly assembled suspension.

    This is one of the main reasons folks with wobble issues only get worse wobbles when they take out factory arms and replace them with even worse aftermarket cheap (incorrectly) poly bushed arms.

    Factory style rubber is also really good to have when using radius arms (long arms) because of the bind created when the arms break the level plane. When one tire is at one height and the other at a lower or higher point they are resting at different points in the radius path. These different lengths create bind that can be absorbed by tough poly or good absorbent rubber.

    I am sending out my first sets of long arms with rubber this week to see how it performs.

    Andy
    'Like' us on Facebook for future discounts! Click Here
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  7. #22
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironmanandy View Post
    .......... Color is Irrelevant. That's like saying I eat blue icing because its better than red.... When it all came from a white batch and they added food coloring ............

    LOL ... good point ... I probably should clarify that the colouring I was referring to - indicated the product brands Ive used.
    I hate watching simplicity and reliability being ruined by bureaucracy and technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattybPDX
    If my jeep is going to be a grocery getter it's at least going to be a friggin awesome one.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    my jonhhy joint arms do use an upgraded 1/2" through bolt. I include the bolt. Its 170,000 psi grade 9, 12 point. just for poops and giggles.
    Andy
    'Like' us on Facebook for future discounts! Click Here
    Ironman4x4Fab.com or call 704-796-3502
    ECORS Class A #121 - the Black 5.9 Grand

  9. #24
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Those that got the rubber joint arms from me and have not yet received them... I special ordered a nifty device for installing the bushings better. It was due in..... whats today?..... yeah 2 days ago....Ill let you know when they ship.
    Andy
    'Like' us on Facebook for future discounts! Click Here
    Ironman4x4Fab.com or call 704-796-3502
    ECORS Class A #121 - the Black 5.9 Grand

  10. #25
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    Default Re: New factory style (Clevite) bushing control arms.

    Welllll ... it took most of the morning but after finally unwrapping 3squillion square feet of cling wrap and newspaper ....

    I discovered a pair of rather over engineered, impressive, lower control arms had arrived ..


    Just like to say thanks for the continued updates on delivery ... and the care in packaging ..


    Just one little issue tho ....

    Are the decals meant to be applied as reinforcing on the lca unibody mounts ??

    ... coz I only got one decal .. ..
    Last edited by Carves; 01-07-2013 at 06:28 PM.
    I hate watching simplicity and reliability being ruined by bureaucracy and technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattybPDX
    If my jeep is going to be a grocery getter it's at least going to be a friggin awesome one.

  11. #26
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    Sep 2012
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    Default

    Andy made me buy more stuff to get extra decals ;-)
    2003 WJ Daily Adventuremobile
    1985 MF 250 Tractor (Fixed!!!)
    1999 XJ (in pieces in the driveway)
    1991 Explorer (Cracked Heads)(Stock, for now )
    1989 F150 (In progress-Blown freeze plugs)
    2003 Explorer 1.5" body lift, F150 towhooks, rare OEM skidplates, 265/70-16 Cooper Discoverer AT3's
    1979 K20, (in pieces in the yard) 350, NP465, NP205, Custom Rust Patches
    1970 C30 (tires tore open by bushhog)

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