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  1. #1
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    Default Loophole in the bible.

    Question I have about the bible and everything that comes with region.

    1. Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain and Able. Later one the bible talks about their wives. Now did God create more or did they produce with Eve?

    2. How old do you think the Earth is? Mathematically its is impossible to have the different races we have on the different Continent with such limited time. To include the world be whipped clean of sin besides Noahs family with the Ark.

    3. Do dogs go to heaven? Im serious. If kids get a free ride up to heaven since they are to young to understand why dont dogs? They say dogs act the same way a 3 year old does. I know dogs have emotion so do they posses souls?

    4. Speaking of free rides. Do those that do not have the opportunity to know God go to heaven? IE Tribes that existed before Christ. Those who have not been exposed to God no matter the age.

    5. Why is current Christianity have it right now and all religions of the past have it wrong?

    6. Why does Christianity resemble Egyptian religions including their Book of the Dead?

    7. There are many stories of virgin births and rising of the dead even before Christ. So why is this story accurate?

    8. Why did Emperor Constantine leave some of the books out of the Bible?

    9. If someone is a Catholic and another is Lutheran. Would one in ones religion go to Hell and the other not? Yet they both pretty much believe in same thing.

    10. Why are there so many versions of Christianity? If the basic guide lines to getting into heave is believing in God, Jesus and forgiving of the sins. Why so many different religions?

    11. Why cant I tithe with time and not money?

    I think that is it for now.

    Thanks for reading.
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    I'm not religious...

    But I've always wondered the answers of some of yer questions!

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    Good questions, I am no scholar, but many are debatable subjects. But what I will take the time to say, is it is not about a religion, it is about a relationship with Jesus Christ. Religion is such a nasty word... Religion seems to focus on a church, style, denomination, view, tradition, etc... But none of those things are good, if they do not support a intimate relationship with our Creator. Words have been twisted, as they are with any subject, not just God. The bible has amazing acuracy, and there is no loopholes in it from front to back. That is what sets it apart from all other "religions" As for the jungle people, or tribes that have not been introduced by man, to Christ... If you study them, they do know there is a greater power. They all have some kind of concept of this. God says that He can be seen in all things, and no man will have an excuse. Population of the world today, with all the holocaust, and other major murdering of people, accounted for, brings the world population very close to the world today starting with Noah at the flood of the earth.
    Nate<><

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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    To answer all that, I would have to write a book. But let's take the age of the earth. Science gets mixed into Genesis and is not always compatible. For instance, science assumes that only certain elements were created in a certain way, the way that would fit their model of time, which is based on certain other assumptions. So, to say it simply, science has created a theory based on underlying unproven guesses about how they thought it was. So we all go to public school and learn a little science and we read a little Bible and then try to rationalize and make it all fit. I did that as early as the 8th grade, and distinctly remember doing it because of the contradictions between the accounts.

    The other issue is that when you learn evolution in a basic biology class in high school or even college, it all sounds so pat that people start talking about it as fact. But the reality is that when you start getting into the most upper level classes and start doing research in grad school, you end up finding out about all the problems with it, the gaps, the changing information and disproved facts that previously were said to prove the theory. Included within this is a whole bunch of anomalies, that is things that don't fit the theory that are put in the file cabinet for later. Those you will not hear about unless you become involved with them.

    So, on to a couple of anomalies that are really important. First one, we cannot make granite. OK, so big deal right? There have been symposiums for years among geologists on how granite was formed called ..... you guessed it, Granite Symposiums. It is one of those little things you learn in grade school. The theory goes that granite was formed deep within the earths mantle as liquid magma (lava underground) slowly cooled and crystalized and then the surface was worn away exposing it. By the way I love wheeling on it. It is one of those central ideas to prove the age of the earth and makes it all sound convincing. But the reality is that we cannot under any circumstances take the minerals and make them crystalize to form granite. All we get is a brown rock. But, it gets even more complicated. Within granite are some bits of what is left of radioactive elements. When they degrade by giving of different kinds of particles, that is pieces of the atom, they form new elements and leave a record of this in the form of a halo, or ring of where the other surrounding material is changed, along with its color. When good old uranium degrades it eventually forms an element called polonium, which only exists for minutes. A uranium halo that eventually goes to lead ends up making many halos, depending on the energy of the particles given off. Polonium halos only have two or three. So what that means is that it appeared in this slowly cooling crystalizing mass over millions of years without making all the other signatures. But to do that would cause us to rewrite the known laws of half lives of radioactive elements and a few other things. In reality, the granite was created in its present form and the short lived polonium was created with it. You can get a book on this called Creation's Tiny Mysteries. There is more on granite, but you get the idea here.

    The point is that when we start talking about the age of the earth itself, no one really knows. There could be a gap of who knows how long between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, or there may not. Neither side can prove conclusively the total age of the earth. The problem that you are alluding to comes when we blend creation/evolution with the total age. They are really separate issues in the creation model and not really relevant from a Biblical perspective. To science it is, since there is an assumption that there is no God. Now, can I prove life as we know it was created in six days. No I cannot. But I cannot also from an evolutionary perspective prove it evolved from nothing. That topic is getting ignored a lot lately because the more we know about life and what it takes to sustain it in even its most simple form, the further we get from being able to create it in a test tube. Now many scientists are openly talking aliens, which is a creation by design model. But one thing I can point to is the flood. There is plenty of evidence for that and I am confident it happened. So knowing that, I do what many scientists do and extrapolate backwards. If it is OK for them, it is OK for me. Since I have confidence in Gen 12 and beyond, which gets more historically accurate every year, then I can have confidence in the record of the first eleven chapters.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    When you are telling a 3 year old child not to play in the street, do you explain to them that they may be hurt or killed due to head trauma, broken bones, lacerations, internal hemorrhaging, brain swelling, etc... or do you just let me know not to do it and if they do they'll get a pow pow on the behind from you?

    I think this is the reason behind the Bible. Is it true, yes I believe it is. Does it mean that everything is EXACTLY as it is written, well maybe if it was translated 100% correctly, but I think it is more a book written by someone(s) that care(d) deeply for our survival. It was written in a way that we could understand, and frankly the hell fire and brimstone I think is much like the pow pow we may promise our children if they misbehave.

    I believe that as things are revealed it will be easy for us to understand what was being said in the Bible and how it is technically correct but has a much deeper and larger meaning that what we have absorbed.

    1. There is evidence that homo sapiens interbred with Neanderthal not saying this is the answer, but could be.

    2. Time is not a constant. Einstein came up with this and it has been proven many times. Also what is the measure of time on Earth. The length of a day, which is how fast the Earth rotates. When Earth was first created its rotation was 10 hours long.

    3. I doubt that dogs go to heaven. I suspect that there are creatures that exist here alone. I think we exist a different place. Kind of like when you play a first person shooter. Your not actually in that world, but it feels like it. Another example of this would be like it was portrayed in "The Matrix". So I don't think the "dogs" in the game could exist outside the game any more than the AI creatures say in "Halo".

    4. If I'm right about us existing somewhere then the "free ride" thing would just be how it is. I mean if your not aware of God in the game and then you disconnect from the game, (die), then you still exist just like you did before you started the game "life".

    5. I think there are some basic rules that you have to follow in life. Loving one another. Thinking of others, helping, being kind, generous, etc... Any religion that doesn't have a message of love for all people is wrong. Anyone that twists religion so that they can hurt people in it's honor is wrong, or a false religion. I don't think that anyone will judge us harsher than we judge ourselves. Again, I think there is much more going on than we've been told.

    6. I don't know that it does. Assuming it does, if the same person(s) are handing out information it would make sense that it would be similar depending on who and when it was told to a people. Their level of understanding and interpretation could account for differences.

    7. Through the use of artificial insemination virgin births are very possible now days. This goes along with what I was saying above that I believe science helps support the Bible instead of disproving it. We simply understand how things work much better now than we did 2,000 years ago. Rising from the dead? Well I believe that is happening everyday in hospitals, in the field my EMTs and even by everyday people that perform CPR and mouth to mouth on people that ARE dead. Is it an accurate story? I don't know, however I do know that it is scientifically possible.

    Remember that 3 days part of the resurrection. I think that in the future you'll see medical breakthroughs that will allow us to revive a deceased person after a multi-hour period of time. There will be a limit to how long, and I suspect it will probably be around 3 days.

    8. I don't know about this specifically, but I do know that things were left out of the Bible. I have a problem with this, but then again I don't know the reasoning behind it. Off the top of my head if God "technically" wrote the books of the Bible did God also direct a man as to which of his books should be included in the Bible. Sounds fishy to me as in mankind treading where only God should be.

    9. I always went to Church of Christ. In Sunday school they taught us that if anyone adds to or takes away from the Bible they would be damned. Makes sense since you are messing around with God's word. I mean it's difficult enough to understand without having "man" muck it up! I had a good friend that was Baptist. I remember one day, jokingly, he told me "Doesn't Church of Christ think everyone else is going to hell?" I was puzzled. It was never said that way to me, but after a few seconds I put it together. Baptists use musical instruments during their worship. Church of Christ doesn't. We don't because that isn't how worship was described in the Bible. Would this be considered adding to the Bible? I don't know. It did seem important enough to the C of C leaders not to do it.

    Ultimately your sins are between you and God. If you are concerned about how you live your life and where you will end up after it is over then you should study the Bible and come to your own conclusion. Using the three year old child analogy again I suspect that God loves us so much that he will do pretty much anything to make sure we succeed. I think that may even include asking his forgiveness after death. I suspect that the real definition of hell will be lack of existence, or simply not being able to be with God.

    10. Man. I think there are those that truly believe they know better what the Bible says, and they simply want to show others the right way to God. Then there are those that can't have the power over other people unless they change the rules somehow. Those are the ones that I think are going to have the hardest time being with God after death, the one's that knowingly try to distort the meaning of the Bible and God.

    11. What do you tell your three year old when they ask why they can't play in the street? I think many people pay in both time and money. I know my Aunt did as she was very active in her church. If everyone donated time instead of money then things would grind to a halt. With money the Church and buy time, in the form of workers, etc... So one allows both, and one is only useful from a small fraction of the people involved in the Church. Besides God gave you the right of choice. You can choice what you do with your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyGuy45 View Post
    Question I have about the bible and everything that comes with region.

    1. Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain and Able. Later one the bible talks about their wives. Now did God create more or did they produce with Eve?

    2. How old do you think the Earth is? Mathematically its is impossible to have the different races we have on the different Continent with such limited time. To include the world be whipped clean of sin besides Noahs family with the Ark.

    3. Do dogs go to heaven? Im serious. If kids get a free ride up to heaven since they are to young to understand why dont dogs? They say dogs act the same way a 3 year old does. I know dogs have emotion so do they posses souls?

    4. Speaking of free rides. Do those that do not have the opportunity to know God go to heaven? IE Tribes that existed before Christ. Those who have not been exposed to God no matter the age.

    5. Why is current Christianity have it right now and all religions of the past have it wrong?

    6. Why does Christianity resemble Egyptian religions including their Book of the Dead?

    7. There are many stories of virgin births and rising of the dead even before Christ. So why is this story accurate?

    8. Why did Emperor Constantine leave some of the books out of the Bible?

    9. If someone is a Catholic and another is Lutheran. Would one in ones religion go to Hell and the other not? Yet they both pretty much believe in same thing.

    10. Why are there so many versions of Christianity? If the basic guide lines to getting into heave is believing in God, Jesus and forgiving of the sins. Why so many different religions?

    11. Why cant I tithe with time and not money?

    I think that is it for now.

    Thanks for reading.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    To me science and the bible are starting to prove themselves.

    The closest thing to religion I can "believe" is deist. Science can only guess on who we started as a single cell organism yet deist explains that.

    Religion is caused many wars and deaths. Funny how if God did exists why would he just sit and let us slaughter ourselves for him or any other God.

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2011/04/04/...a-face-update/

    Now why would God let these children suffer? She did not asked to be born this way nor does any kid. So why does God step in?

    One thing I hate about religion is its a lot like Government. Only two choices when you want a 3rd. Once you find out about God you MUST make a choice. Either to believe and follow his way or not and be banished to hell. How about a 3rd choice? How about I just do my thing and call it a black blanket when I die?
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by nateyz2000 View Post
    Good questions, I am no scholar, but many are debatable subjects. But what I will take the time to say, is it is not about a religion, it is about a relationship with Jesus Christ. Religion is such a nasty word... Religion seems to focus on a church, style, denomination, view, tradition, etc... But none of those things are good, if they do not support a intimate relationship with our Creator. Words have been twisted, as they are with any subject, not just God. The bible has amazing acuracy, and there is no loopholes in it from front to back. That is what sets it apart from all other "religions" As for the jungle people, or tribes that have not been introduced by man, to Christ... If you study them, they do know there is a greater power. They all have some kind of concept of this. God says that He can be seen in all things, and no man will have an excuse. Population of the world today, with all the holocaust, and other major murdering of people, accounted for, brings the world population very close to the world today starting with Noah at the flood of the earth.
    Well, where did all the water come from for the flooding of the Earth and where did it go? Mt. Everest is 27K feet high. Now I have done the math but to have water reach that high around the Earth is quite a bit.

    You mean we got from a family of 15 to everything we see now on the Earth in 4000-7000 years? Without the aid of medical intervention? Dont forget any wars that were unrecorded. Diseases and famine.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    My theory is that you will see more and more athiest with the next few generations.

    As science tech increases you will see less religion.

    Back in the Greek and Roman days they couldnt explain why the Moon sat where it did and why the oceans produced waves. So they created a God for everything that was unexplained. As science technology became better. You find less of a need for Gods to exist.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyGuy45 View Post
    Well, where did all the water come from for the flooding of the Earth and where did it go? Mt. Everest is 27K feet high. Now I have done the math but to have water reach that high around the Earth is quite a bit.

    You mean we got from a family of 15 to everything we see now on the Earth in 4000-7000 years? Without the aid of medical intervention? Dont forget any wars that were unrecorded. Diseases and famine.
    That is a good question, and there is some good science to answer that. Geologists recognize two kinds of mountains. Old and new. Old ones, like for instance our Appalachians are low and much more rounded, like foothills. New ones, which can be very tall are the result of tectonic plate movement and are uplifted as one plate slides under another. Mt Everest for instance is the results of two large land masses colliding. If we look at layers of the earths crust, we can figure the movement out and the origins. For instance, it doesn't take much imagination to fit the Americas on the edges of Europe and Africa. The origin of the plates, a super continent called Pangea, has been very widely accepted, and is pre sedimentary layer. That is pre fossil record. If you Google Pangea, you will find lots of info on it including animated sequences showing the break up and movement. So land masses were presumably low during the flood. If you accept a flood during the pre fossil record, then that is what you have. The Biblical account not only records rain, but the fountains of the deep breaking up. Geological time suggest that the movement was slow,as it is now under the Uniformitarian Theory. However there is no proof of that and in fact there has been some science in the last 20 years to suggest that is not necessarily the case. More anomalies. Anyway, if you accept a flood, and there is evidence that all, and I mean all of the fossil record was the result of one or more very large scale catastrophes, and that it all happened under water. Science and Creation are coming together on that point. In the flood model, the continents moved more quickly as they broke up, and is more easily explained with current knowledge than a slow break up. Just imaging the tidal wave and you have your answer for water covering continents.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyGuy45 View Post
    To me science and the bible are starting to prove themselves.

    The closest thing to religion I can "believe" is deist. Science can only guess on who we started as a single cell organism yet deist explains that.

    Religion is caused many wars and deaths. Funny how if God did exists why would he just sit and let us slaughter ourselves for him or any other God.

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2011/04/04/...a-face-update/

    Now why would God let these children suffer? She did not asked to be born this way nor does any kid. So why does God step in?

    One thing I hate about religion is its a lot like Government. Only two choices when you want a 3rd. Once you find out about God you MUST make a choice. Either to believe and follow his way or not and be banished to hell. How about a 3rd choice? How about I just do my thing and call it a black blanket when I die?
    Why does God let bad things happen to good people?

    I have an answer for this. I thought this was an original idea until I told my wife one day and she had read a very similar idea, anyway.

    A scifi explanation. God doesn't let bad things happen to good people. Everything that happens to us here we do to ourselves. You see we are not one person we are every person. Every person alive, or has lived, or will live. Right now I'm replying to myself. Of course you think you are you and I think I am not you! Otherwise it would be like playing checkers by yourself.

    So lets say in elementary I picked on you, and hurt your feelings. Maybe even pushed you down. In the universe I am describing I would simply be picking on myself. I don't know this of course, to me it's a different person.

    I look at it this way (here we go with the game thing again). If you are playing an online game and your ping gets bad, you have lag. Lag being a brief stopping of the game. This is frustrating when it happens. Being outside the game you are aware that time is stopping and starting, if however you were inside the game time starting and stopping would just appear to be a smooth flow because your perception would start and stop.

    In a simulation time does not have the be linear. You could quite literally live 6 billion (and that's just the current head count on Earth) lives one right after the other. Surely this would be as close to living forever as we could possibly imagine. (i.e. ever lasting life)

    So when you were told, "Treat others as you would have them treat you..." or "We are here to learn", or "Why does God let bad things happen..." It's all explained in this simple theory. We are only hurting ourselves and in the process we are learning very valuable lessons literally billions of times.

    Obviously our memories, or should I say my memories, would have to be wiped for each new life. Of course it may not work 100% each time, and that's when we remember fragments of our past lives.

    This is fun and explains a lot about this world, and the apparent lack of God's direct influence. Now if you take it one step further, we are all one and the one is God, that'll really toast your cookies.

    P.S. it would also explain how God is all knowing all seeing and everywhere.

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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4.3LXJ View Post
    That is a good question, and there is some good science to answer that. Geologists recognize two kinds of mountains. Old and new. Old ones, like for instance our Appalachians are low and much more rounded, like foothills. New ones, which can be very tall are the result of tectonic plate movement and are uplifted as one plate slides under another. Mt Everest for instance is the results of two large land masses colliding. If we look at layers of the earths crust, we can figure the movement out and the origins. For instance, it doesn't take much imagination to fit the Americas on the edges of Europe and Africa. The origin of the plates, a super continent called Pangea, has been very widely accepted, and is pre sedimentary layer. That is pre fossil record. If you Google Pangea, you will find lots of info on it including animated sequences showing the break up and movement. So land masses were presumably low during the flood. If you accept a flood during the pre fossil record, then that is what you have. The Biblical account not only records rain, but the fountains of the deep breaking up. Geological time suggest that the movement was slow,as it is now under the Uniformitarian Theory. However there is no proof of that and in fact there has been some science in the last 20 years to suggest that is not necessarily the case. More anomalies. Anyway, if you accept a flood, and there is evidence that all, and I mean all of the fossil record was the result of one or more very large scale catastrophes, and that it all happened under water. Science and Creation are coming together on that point. In the flood model, the continents moved more quickly as they broke up, and is more easily explained with current knowledge than a slow break up. Just imaging the tidal wave and you have your answer for water covering continents.
    4-7k years Everest was born? I could see the Earth changing shapes but the water had to come from some where to last 40 days and not just be a wave.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudderoy View Post
    Why does God let bad things happen to good people?

    I have an answer for this. I thought this was an original idea until I told my wife one day and she had read a very similar idea, anyway.

    A scifi explanation. God doesn't let bad things happen to good people. Everything that happens to us here we do to ourselves. You see we are not one person we are every person. Every person alive, or has lived, or will live. Right now I'm replying to myself. Of course you think you are you and I think I am not you! Otherwise it would be like playing checkers by yourself.

    So lets say in elementary I picked on you, and hurt your feelings. Maybe even pushed you down. In the universe I am describing I would simply be picking on myself. I don't know this of course, to me it's a different person.

    I look at it this way (here we go with the game thing again). If you are playing an online game and your ping gets bad, you have lag. Lag being a brief stopping of the game. This is frustrating when it happens. Being outside the game you are aware that time is stopping and starting, if however you were inside the game time starting and stopping would just appear to be a smooth flow because your perception would start and stop.

    In a simulation time does not have the be linear. You could quite literally live 6 billion (and that's just the current head count on Earth) lives one right after the other. Surely this would be as close to living forever as we could possibly imagine. (i.e. ever lasting life)

    So when you were told, "Treat others as you would have them treat you..." or "We are here to learn", or "Why does God let bad things happen..." It's all explained in this simple theory. We are only hurting ourselves and in the process we are learning very valuable lessons literally billions of times.

    Obviously our memories, or should I say my memories, would have to be wiped for each new life. Of course it may not work 100% each time, and that's when we remember fragments of our past lives.

    This is fun and explains a lot about this world, and the apparent lack of God's direct influence. Now if you take it one step further, we are all one and the one is God, that'll really toast your cookies.

    P.S. it would also explain how God is all knowing all seeing and everywhere.

    With this theory you wouldnt be a the "normal Christian" since your heaven is simply hell on Earth.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyGuy45 View Post
    With this theory you wouldnt be a the "normal Christian" since your heaven is simply hell on Earth.
    Whether this is true reality or not, this saying is still correct. The world is what we make of it.

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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyGuy45 View Post
    4-7k years Everest was born? I could see the Earth changing shapes but the water had to come from some where to last 40 days and not just be a wave.
    I think you misunderstood. Everest happened in a very short time. And, remember, even Everest like our Sierras has marine fossils. But, as you will. What we do know is that the whole surface of the earth has marine fossils and all the sedimentary rock laid down has the characteristics of turbidites, that is underwater land slides. It is easily seen, even when driving by at slower speeds. Large particles on the bottom gradually getting finer with the finest at the top where the fossils are. This does not match with dust settling over millions of years. That has been a criticism of evolutionary fossil record until a guy named Steven Gould revised the theory to include continent wide catastrophes happening under water. It is called the Punctuated Equilibrium.
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    Default Re: Loophole in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4.3LXJ View Post
    I think you misunderstood. Everest happened in a very short time. And, remember, even Everest like our Sierras has marine fossils. But, as you will. What we do know is that the whole surface of the earth has marine fossils and all the sedimentary rock laid down has the characteristics of turbidites, that is underwater land slides. It is easily seen, even when driving by at slower speeds. Large particles on the bottom gradually getting finer with the finest at the top where the fossils are. This does not match with dust settling over millions of years. That has been a criticism of evolutionary fossil record until a guy named Steven Gould revised the theory to include continent wide catastrophes happening under water. It is called the Punctuated Equilibrium.
    There is evidence to suggest there was a great flood when a glacier melted and released a huge amount of water into the Mediterranean area. They have found several cities that are under 30 feet of water even today. So this wouldn't be the "World" was flooded, but certainly the known world.

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