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xjbarney98
07-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Hey XJ-ers,

I'm in need of some serious assistance asap. Mudderoy helped me out on Yahoo! answers with some really helpful information. However, I feel it was slightly too technical for me.

I need to change my starter, and I'm a DIY noob when it comes to automotive repair in general. I've had my XJ for about a year now and love it, but I've just now realized that I need to hang on to my old girl for quite a while, so I'm interested in learning about making repairs on my own.

Anyway, I need to get my XJ rolling soon. I'm already tired of bumming rides of family/friends/co-workers and its only day 2 of no Jeep.

My starter (i believe) is the issue. When I turn the ignition, I get absolutely no response from the engine. My gauges and radio turn on, my lights and blinkers are totally functional. But no response from under the hood.

I've located the starter and removed one bolt from it, but, according to mudderoy, I'm a bit ahead of myself.

If someone could help me out with a diagram or more detailed repair descriptions, it would be greatly appreciated. What is the idler pulley? How do i disconnect the power and control lines, and where are they located?

Anything you guys can do would be great.

Thanks!

Melissa
07-14-2009, 11:12 PM
Are you sure that it's the starter?, I might confuse you, but mine does exactly what you described, but in my case it's my neutral safety switch. I can get mine to start in neutral, have you tried that?

Just a thought, I'm a rank beginner as a want to be mech

Mudderoy
07-14-2009, 11:18 PM
Are you sure that it's the starter?, I might confuse you, but mine does exactly what you described, but in my case it's my neutral safety switch. I can get mine to start in neutral, have you tried that?

Just a thought, I'm a rank beginner as a want to be mech

Wow! Excellent point. Assuming you have an automatic, try moving the shifter from park to netural several times. The engine should turn over either in Park or Netural.

Mine acted up a couple of years ago, and actually illuminated the check engine light. When I found out what the code was for and saw a diagram of the part, I just moved the shifter (engine off) back and forth about 20 times. I guess it cleaned the contacts because I haven't had a problem since.

Melissa
07-14-2009, 11:24 PM
Wow! Excellent point. Assuming you have an automatic, try moving the shifter from park to netural several times. The engine should turn over either in Park or Netural.

Mine acted up a couple of years ago, and actually illuminated the check engine light. When I found out what the code was for and saw a diagram of the part, I just moved the shifter (engine off) back and forth about 20 times. I guess it cleaned the contacts because I haven't had a problem since.

Alittle more confusion, sometimes mine won't start in either park or neutral, so I resort to a remote starter. I hook it from the battery to the starter solenoid, this by passes the NSS and mine fires right up everytime this way

Mudderoy
07-14-2009, 11:32 PM
Alittle more confusion, sometimes mine won't start in either park or neutral, so I resort to a remote starter. I hook it from the battery to the starter solenoid, this by passes the NSS and mine fires right up everytime this way

Have you tried just having a fit and jerking that lever back and forth to infinity +1? Try it. :smiley-taunt013:

Mudderoy
07-14-2009, 11:43 PM
Hey XJ-ers,

I'm in need of some serious assistance asap. Mudderoy helped me out on Yahoo! answers with some really helpful information. However, I feel it was slightly too technical for me.

I need to change my starter, and I'm a DIY noob when it comes to automotive repair in general. I've had my XJ for about a year now and love it, but I've just now realized that I need to hang on to my old girl for quite a while, so I'm interested in learning about making repairs on my own.

Anyway, I need to get my XJ rolling soon. I'm already tired of bumming rides of family/friends/co-workers and its only day 2 of no Jeep.

My starter (i believe) is the issue. When I turn the ignition, I get absolutely no response from the engine. My gauges and radio turn on, my lights and blinkers are totally functional. But no response from under the hood.

I've located the starter and removed one bolt from it, but, according to mudderoy, I'm a bit ahead of myself.

If someone could help me out with a diagram or more detailed repair descriptions, it would be greatly appreciated. What is the idler pulley? How do i disconnect the power and control lines, and where are they located?

Anything you guys can do would be great.

Thanks!

Hey Barn, thanks for joining us. I'll get some pictures of what I was telling you about on Yahoo. Check back tomorrow afternoon (evening) and hopefully I'll have some decent shots that will help explain visually what I was telling you.

xjbarney98
07-14-2009, 11:48 PM
Tried the NSS thing just now - I had heard of that theory on XJs before. Still nothing. Also, I replaced the old battery in an early attempt at a cheap fix for the problem. Update - in the dead of the evening just now I could actually hear something whirring under the hood when I cranked the key. Not sure what it is though....:confused:

Mudderoy
07-14-2009, 11:52 PM
Listen closer, I bet the sound is the fuel pump in the gas tank.

It is very strange that turning the key does nothing. It could be the starter, the solinod, the NSS or a bad ignition switch.

If you can get the starter out you can get the auto parts place to check it for free. Worse case is you find out it isn't that and you have to reinstall it.

xjbarney98
07-14-2009, 11:52 PM
Thanks mudderoy. I cant tell you how much I appreciate it.
-BG

Melissa
07-14-2009, 11:53 PM
I still would try a remote starter before pulling the starter, alot simpler, like I said sometimes mine will not start in park or in neutral

xjbarney98
07-14-2009, 11:57 PM
I still would try a remote starter before pulling the starter, alot simpler, like I said sometimes mine will not start in park or in neutral

Not a bad idea, but unfortunately the almighty dollar is an issue at this point.

Melissa
07-15-2009, 12:09 AM
Not a bad idea, but unfortunately the almighty dollar is an issue at this point.

Just a thought, this is what mine looks like and I paid less than $20 for it, it has saved me dozens of times from having to spend $300 on a new NSS

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/melreese83/misc%20pictures/HPIM0653.jpg



Keep us informed as you go along, I am very interested in what the problem is

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 05:14 AM
ok the starter is only 2 bolts through the block and 2 nuts for the wiring. So if you already had one out, you are half way done lol. I would just take it out and take it to AZ or advanced and have them check it for you (FREE). But the only thing that would make me want to think that it isnt the starter is it just WENT!!!!. There was no clicking or nothing when you tried to start it? I know for a fact when mine went out (2001) that it clicked when trying to fire it up. (which is what i have seen happen on almost every vehicle that i have changed a starter on)

My best advice even on a budget is to go to AZ or Advance andbuy a Haynes manual. It will give you step by step instructions on how to take anything off your XJ. One of the best tools i have ever had for my XJ is this book.

HTH

BlueXJ
07-15-2009, 07:26 AM
In the above statement I may have missed it but FIRST disconnect the battery.
Then the wiring via thost two nuts. Now the two bolts that secure the starter to the engine. Now it should fall into your hands.

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 08:27 AM
nope i didnt think of that. Hell i ussually forget it myself and end up throwing some sparks. So ussually i dont disconnect it till i put the new one in lol

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 08:42 AM
Not a bad idea, but unfortunately the almighty dollar is an issue at this point.

I haven't done this on a jeep, but I used to put a screwdriver between the positive lead and the switch lead (I think) to check my starter on my 72 Nova. Same idea of the switch that Mel is talking about but $0, assuming you have a screwdriver of course. :eek:

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 09:12 AM
I still would try a remote starter before pulling the starter, alot simpler, like I said sometimes mine will not start in park or in neutral



yeah but pulling the starter is still free and takes half hour tops:thumbsup:

96xj
07-15-2009, 10:14 AM
:wtf::lolsign: im not the only one with this problem:smiley-laughing021:
i do pull the shifter back and forth til its starts :smiley-gen165:
but sometimes i have a really good crank but wont start in (p) or (n) ??? what could that be ???
cause the nss wont let you get a crank , but i have a good crank but no start

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 10:23 AM
:wtf::lolsign: im not the only one with this problem:smiley-laughing021:
i do pull the shifter back and forth til its starts :smiley-gen165:
but sometimes i have a really good crank but wont start in (p) or (n) ??? what could that be ???
cause the nss wont let you get a crank , but i have a good crank but no start

Could be several things, including the fuel pump, or filter. I think most of the time it is the CPS (Crank Position Sensor).

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 10:29 AM
Could be several things, including the fuel pump, or filter. I think most of the time it is the CPS (Crank Position Sensor).


on 97+ your odometer would read NOBUS if the CPS was bad:thumbsup:

and yeah the screwdriver would work too. done that:thumbsup:

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 10:30 AM
on 97+ your odometer would read NOBUS if the CPS was bad:thumbsup:

and yeah the screwdriver would work too. done that:thumbsup:

Hmmm I had starting issues with my 98 that went away after replacing the CPS. No message displayed.

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 11:16 AM
weird. That is what i always read happens when the CPS goes bad (thought mine did when i put the new motor in because it would start and i got a NOBUS)

hey check your grounds on the side of the block by the battery then. That is why mine wouldn't start. Just another idea.

did you change your CPS mud?

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 11:49 AM
Yes I did.

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 11:50 AM
HOW!!!!??? i couldn't get to the damn thing!!!! probably a good thing since it wasnt bad though lol

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 11:53 AM
How? When the mechanic had finished changing the front NP242 seal I said, "Hey! Can you put this CPS on?" He said sure and we chatted during the 5 minutes it took him to change it! :rotfl2:

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 12:40 PM
ha ha lol i see

Melissa
07-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Okay correct me if i'm wrong the crank position sensor is the same as crankshaft sensor?? This is what I was told it was called when I had mine changed 5 years ago.

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 12:57 PM
ha ha lol i see

He had it up in the air, anyone could have changed it in 5 minutes.

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 12:58 PM
Okay correct me if i'm wrong the crank position sensor is the same as crankshaft sensor?? This is what I was told it was called when I had mine changed 5 years ago.

I thought it was the crankshaft position sensor. It's monitoring the flywheel which is attached to the crankshaft. I don't know really.

Make that CRANK POSITION SENSOR.

I think I know. The Renix engine has a camshaft position sensor. The good ones, ummmm, HO one's do not.

Melissa
07-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Maybe this will help, while driving down the road my jeep would just shut off like I turned the key off, I would have to quickly shove my tranny in neutral and then fire it back up. It didn't do it all the time, but scared the crap out of me when it did do it, took it to a mech and he changed what he called the crankshaft sensor, and it has never done it again, does this sound like it could be on in the same as a crank position sensor, just curious

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Maybe this will help, while driving down the road my jeep would just shut off like I turned the key off, I would have to quickly shove my tranny in neutral and then fire it back up. It didn't do it all the time, but scared the crap out of me when it did do it, took it to a mech and he changed what he called the crankshaft sensor, and it has never done it again, does this sound like it could be on in the same as a crank position sensor, just curious

Where the hell is bluexj when you need him. Probably feeding cat number 42, anyway...

I think the renix uses the cam pos sensor to figure out when to fire the spark plug, and the later HO engines use the crank pos sensor for the same thing. The renix is in the distributor the HO is on the bell housing of the transmission.

Melissa
07-15-2009, 01:23 PM
It's no big deal I was just curious, mine is fixed, but I just thought they were one in the same, and I do believe they are. My haynes manual does say that my CPS is mounted on the transmission bellhousing

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 01:43 PM
99% sure that is wrong. Wouldn't renix motors have a distributor. Now i know for a fact or 2000 and 2001 XJ's that are distibutorless. They have a camshaft sensor which is were the distributor would be that sends a signal to the comp as to when to fire.

I learned my fairshare on the camshaft sensor when i rebuilt the motor.

Mudderoy
07-15-2009, 02:05 PM
99% sure that is wrong. Wouldn't renix motors have a distributor. Now i know for a fact or 2000 and 2001 XJ's that are distibutorless. They have a camshaft sensor which is were the distributor would be that sends a signal to the comp as to when to fire.

I learned my fairshare on the camshaft sensor when i rebuilt the motor.

I don't know, teach me I am a sponge.

kmanxj
07-15-2009, 02:10 PM
lol i guess i will let a renix guy chime in first. :thumbsup:

96xj
07-16-2009, 09:34 AM
I thought it was the crankshaft position sensor. It's monitoring the flywheel which is attached to the crankshaft. I don't know really.

Make that CRANK POSITION SENSOR.

I think I know. The Renix engine has a camshaft position sensor. The good ones, ummmm, HO one's do not.

are you sure the HO dose not have a CPS ?
i was told that it had one

Capndave
07-16-2009, 07:17 PM
i just put a HO in my 88 it had a cam sensor in the distibutor just like renix and renix also uses a crank sensor cam normally only causes extended crank , crank will cause crank no start

Melissa
07-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Okay I sort of hijacked xjbarney98's thread and for that I am sorry,

I really do want to learn more about if my xj has a CPS or not, but it should be in another thread

So back to the original problem of his xj not starting. I have a thought :smiley-scared002:

I read that my back up lights are tied into the NSS, therefor I have no back up lights cause my NSS is bad. Is this true on the new years like his 98? If so can he check to see if his reverse lights are working when his jeep won't start, and won't that tell him for sure wether or not the NSS is bad??

okeedokee
07-17-2009, 10:47 AM
I have a 89 and we were up wheeling a walker valley and the nss went out and the jeep would not start so I jumped the starter with a screw driver and then never shut it off till we got back down to the trailer.
it is not hard to see nss just climb under your jeep passage side and look at were the trann and motor bolt together there you will see the wire harness and switch. Got home went to local pull apart or junk yard pulled one and put it in works great 5 dollar fix.