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TeXJ
08-12-2011, 02:22 PM
Not sure if this is the right area. This is more of a hypothetical question. If you are banned from a forum. Do they just ban your account and email? Or do they ban your IP, account and email?

Your MAC address changes with each router hop, but Your IP is given by your ISP, and it could be the same IP for multiple users?

So how do they ban just the person and not everybody associated with that IP?

So if its just the account and email you can use the same PC and just get a different email then set up a new account, right?

Mudderoy
08-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Not sure if this is the right area. This is more of a hypothetical question. If you are banned from a forum. Do they just ban your account and email? Or do they ban your IP, account and email?

Your MAC address changes with each router hop, but Your IP is given by your ISP, and it could be the same IP for multiple users?

So how do they ban just the person and not everybody associated with that IP?

So if its just the account and email you can use the same PC and just get a different email then set up a new account, right?

It really depends.

It depends on the software being used and it depends on what the moderator can do, or if it is an admin.

For example here on xjtalk.com if a moderator bans you, they are banning your username, not your IP address.

You MAC address never changes. It is linked to your physical Ethernet device. Virtual Ethernet adapters, virtual servers etc... blur that last statement but for ARP to work correctly MAC addresses have to be unique.

Now IP addresses are usually assigned via DHCP. Your least period may vary, but once you have an IP address you have first "dibs" on that IP address when the lease is 50% up and your computer starts requesting a renewal.

An admin on xjtalk can ban your IP address. We can go a step further outside the software that makes up the forums and ban your IP address on the firewall. We can ban you from access to the websites (all of them on the server) or we can choose to totally ignore ANY connection request that comes from your IP address. We can ban the class C, B, or A that contains your IP address which would basically mean you are never getting into our server at least not with the ISP you are using. Sure they could have multiple class C's I guess.

Most people you just ban their username (not e-mail address) and they go away. If they create a new username well fine, maybe they'll behave, if not they'll get banned again and probably IP banned.

There are two main types of bans. One is a perm the other is a timed. Normally we don't do timed bans, as we can usually straighten out things, usually just a misunderstanding. Perm ban has only been used on one person in over two years. Now we do perm ban the robots that register here and anyone that registers and posts spam, but I don't consider them members, they are just here to make use of free advertising.

Hopefully that answered your questions, if not ask away! :comfort:

TeXJ
08-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the response!
I'm just trying to learn more about how the interwebs work :D
In my CCNA class we did learn that the MAC address changes with each hop of Routers, here's a bit of reading fyi

thanks Tony!


when a packet is sentt outside the LAN the computer will use the MAC address of the default gateway.


http://www.tildefrugal.net/tech/arp.php



ARP operation for a remote host
If the IP is not local then the gateway (router) will see this (remember, the ARP request is broadcast so all hosts on the LAN will see the request). The router will look in it's routing table and if it has a route to the destination network, then it will reply with it's own MAC address.

Mudderoy
08-12-2011, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the response!
I'm just trying to learn more about how the interwebs work :D
In my CCNA class we did learn that the MAC address changes with each hop of Routers, here's a bit of reading fyi

thanks Tony!


when a packet is sentt outside the LAN the computer will use the MAC address of the default gateway.


http://www.tildefrugal.net/tech/arp.php



ARP operation for a remote host
If the IP is not local then the gateway (router) will see this (remember, the ARP request is broadcast so all hosts on the LAN will see the request). The router will look in it's routing table and if it has a route to the destination network, then it will reply with it's own MAC address.

Yeah but that has to do if you are using NAT, or some mechanism that masks the true IP address of the device, right? Never mind I'll read it. But the MAC address of your device doesn't change.

xj4life2
08-12-2011, 04:36 PM
Ban him he knows to much !!!!!!! lol lol

Mudderoy
08-12-2011, 04:38 PM
Ban him he knows to much !!!!!!! lol lol

I just gave him a temp ban, it will be over before he reads this... hey wait that's a catch 22! :rolleyes:

XJ4IV
08-12-2011, 07:14 PM
apparently IM banned from lonestarjeepclub.com however my WIFE isnt ... lol

bigjim350
08-12-2011, 08:36 PM
Well the first few times i got banned from cherokeefourm they just banned my username(s) But then after a while of me messing around they banned my ip address. I now have a new ip address :D

TeXJ
08-12-2011, 11:41 PM
Yeah but that has to do if you are using NAT, or some mechanism that masks the true IP address of the device, right? Never mind I'll read it. But the MAC address of your device doesn't change.

that you are correct, it's "burned" into the NIC more or less. But as the packets/frames go through the hops the MAC address is changed.

TeXJ
08-12-2011, 11:42 PM
apparently IM banned from lonestarjeepclub.com however my WIFE isnt ... lol

YOU are the reason for me pondering this scenario!!! :bang:

TeXJ
08-12-2011, 11:45 PM
Well the first few times i got banned from cherokeefourm they just banned my username(s) But then after a while of me messing around they banned my ip address. I now have a new ip address :D

so did you do a ipconfig /release then an ipconfig /renew ?

you can do that in command prompt and you will get a new IP. But I dont know how they would know your PC's IP, seeing as how it is more than likely a private IP address. And its your ISP's IP that is a "given" to you that actually banned, am I right in thinking that?

Mudderoy
08-13-2011, 07:35 AM
so did you do a ipconfig /release then an ipconfig /renew ?

you can do that in command prompt and you will get a new IP. But I dont know how they would know your PC's IP, seeing as how it is more than likely a private IP address. And its your ISP's IP that is a "given" to you that actually banned, am I right in thinking that?

The device that is provided to you by your ISP has an IP. It's that IP address that would have to change. ipconfig /release would only release the IP address that the device assigned to you, which would be an internal non-routable IP address. Like a 192.168.0.0 address. There is a non routable 10.x.x.x as well, I just don't remember what it is.

TeXJ
08-13-2011, 10:37 PM
The device that is provided to you by your ISP has an IP. It's that IP address that would have to change. ipconfig /release would only release the IP address that the device assigned to you, which would be an internal non-routable IP address. Like a 192.168.0.0 address. There is a non routable 10.x.x.x as well, I just don't remember what it is.

I was referring to when Jim said that he just changed his IP then he was able to get back into the forum.

IZAREBL
10-04-2011, 01:08 PM
i got temporarily banned from cherokee forum for 30 days, for saying a ''cuss'' word. pretty stupid.... but they have just blocked my email in my other experiences.

Mudderoy
10-04-2011, 01:19 PM
i got temporarily banned from cherokee forum for 30 days, for saying a ''cuss'' word. pretty stupid.... but they have just blocked my email in my other experiences.

We have a moderator, a former moderator and an admin that were perm banned from CherokeeForum. :D

Oh and NO that isn't when they came to xjtalk. They were already part of the site! rofl

msmoorenburg
10-04-2011, 01:26 PM
hey its me :D. the next words are my opinion only. I find it childish to hide as they do over there. I've sent a few emails asking why i was banned and ZERO response. Here if someone is banned I will make a point to contact the user, So they are not left in the dark (as was I when banned) and go from there. I think the image I used got under someones skin. Aww such as life you have to roll with the punches.

TeXJ
10-04-2011, 03:41 PM
You rebel!

dagr8tim
10-04-2011, 07:03 PM
MAC is a hard coded quasi serial number of the Ethernet adapter (layer 2).

I'm an administrator for my Jeep Club's website (PHPBB), we can ban by IP, email, username, or any combo. 9 times out of 10, it's a username ban. Which means you could create a new username with a new email address and defeat it. But that just tends to piss the admin's off and usually results in a perm ban.

TeXJ
10-04-2011, 09:01 PM
MAC is a hard coded quasi serial number of the Ethernet adapter (layer 2).

I'm an administrator for my Jeep Club's website (PHPBB), we can ban by IP, email, username, or any combo. 9 times out of 10, it's a username ban. Which means you could create a new username with a new email address and defeat it. But that just tends to piss the admin's off and usually results in a perm ban.

So the IP that is seen is the leased IP that the ISP gives that particular user. So lets say it's a 24 hr lease, so if you just ban the IP than they can come back in 24hrs right? So a combination would then be in order correct?

Mudderoy
10-04-2011, 09:05 PM
So the IP that is seen is the leased IP that the ISP gives that particular user. So lets say it's a 24 hr lease, so if you just ban the IP than they can come back in 24hrs right? So a combination would then be in order correct?

In standard DHCP once your device gets an IP address you have DIBBS on it for the next renewal which starts at 1/2 the lease expiration period. 24 hour lease means your adapter will start requesting a renewal after 12 hours. At least thats what I remember from several years ago.

But very few people have static IP addresses. So IP banning is generally a very bad idea.

TeXJ
10-04-2011, 09:07 PM
In standard DHCP once your device gets an IP address you have DIBBS on it for the next renewal which starts at 1/2 the lease expiration period. 24 hour lease means your adapter will start requesting a renewal after 12 hours. At least thats what I remember from several years ago.

Oh I didnt not know that. So it "could" get a new IP much sooner? I would think the process of IP renewal would be pretty quick. As a new machine is added to the network seconds pass and it has a new IP.

Talking all the IP jargin reminds me I have to go take my CCNA chpt test :bang:

dagr8tim
10-04-2011, 09:12 PM
9 times out of 10, if you unplug your DSL/Cable modem for 10 minutes. You'll end up with a new public IP address from the ISP. If you don't want to wait, use a proxy.

A device will start the renewal process after half the time of the lease has expired. If you have a router or some other layer 3 device connected to the modem. You're public IP will probably stay the same for months at a time. But you also have to realize that your ISP subnet's their IP's, so you could see a limited pool of IP's for your neighborhood.

Also, if you're ISP is feeding you a private IP (usually in the 10.x.x.x range). You could see problems getting a new public IP. Some ISP's are starting to do that as a stop gap as IP V4 dries up and IP V6 deployment is slowed.

cantab27
10-04-2011, 10:00 PM
^^^^^^ um yeah,, what tim said...........................

Mudderoy
10-05-2011, 12:04 AM
9 times out of 10, if you unplug your DSL/Cable modem for 10 minutes. You'll end up with a new public IP address from the ISP. If you don't want to wait, use a proxy.

A device will start the renewal process after half the time of the lease has expired. If you have a router or some other layer 3 device connected to the modem. You're public IP will probably stay the same for months at a time. But you also have to realize that your ISP subnet's their IP's, so you could see a limited pool of IP's for your neighborhood.

Also, if you're ISP is feeding you a private IP (usually in the 10.x.x.x range). You could see problems getting a new public IP. Some ISP's are starting to do that as a stop gap as IP V4 dries up and IP V6 deployment is slowed.

Wow I did not know they were doing that. So they are NATting your NAT! :smiley-scared002:

msmoorenburg
10-05-2011, 07:15 AM
^^^^^^ um yeah,, what tim said...........................

poor wayne i guess we need to send the geek squad over in a non green jeep to fix his issues :ass:

dagr8tim
10-05-2011, 07:48 AM
Wow I did not know they were doing that. So they are NATting your NAT! :smiley-scared002:

Yup. Plays hell when you try to hook up a router that wants to use a 10 range for it's DHCP leases.


Although, at one point I had a Watchguard firewall assigning 10.x.x.x IP's to two different wireless routers. The watchguard has a public and a trusted Ethernet port. The wireless router on the public port was unencrypted, and traffic shaped to reduce bandwidth. Watchguard also is setup so that anything that comes from the public port goes straight to the internet with no possibility of hitting your LAN.

The router on the private port was encrypted and what I used. It worked great living in a townhouse, because people were constantly trying to hack my wireless.

I did that until I got a nasty note from my ISP. It seems my enterprise grade firewall was blocking their probing of my connection. But blocking their probing seemed to increase my speeds by the seat of the pants meter.

bluedragon436
10-05-2011, 07:59 AM
hey its me :D. the next words are my opinion only. I find it childish to hide as they do over there. I've sent a few emails asking why i was banned and ZERO response. Here if someone is banned I will make a point to contact the user, So they are not left in the dark (as was I when banned) and go from there. I think the image I used got under someones skin. Aww such as life you have to roll with the punches.

F**k em' if they can't take a joke.. LOL.. I hate when people get all stupid over dumb shit like that.. how about some communication when there is an issue with something on the site.. not just ban them..

dagr8tim
10-05-2011, 08:10 AM
F**k em' if they can't take a joke.. LOL.. I hate when people get all stupid over dumb shit like that.. how about some communication when there is an issue with something on the site.. not just ban them..

Ah.... Another George Carlin fan. That's the problem, people that take themselves too seriously.

Mudderoy
10-05-2011, 08:44 AM
Yup. Plays hell when you try to hook up a router that wants to use a 10 range for it's DHCP leases.


Although, at one point I had a Watchguard firewall assigning 10.x.x.x IP's to two different wireless routers. The watchguard has a public and a trusted Ethernet port. The wireless router on the public port was unencrypted, and traffic shaped to reduce bandwidth. Watchguard also is setup so that anything that comes from the public port goes straight to the internet with no possibility of hitting your LAN.

The router on the private port was encrypted and what I used. It worked great living in a townhouse, because people were constantly trying to hack my wireless.

I did that until I got a nasty note from my ISP. It seems my enterprise grade firewall was blocking their probing of my connection. But blocking their probing seemed to increase my speeds by the seat of the pants meter.

Hmmmm do you think it could have been effecting THEIR traffic shaping? lol

dagr8tim
10-05-2011, 08:51 AM
Hmmmm do you think it could have been effecting THEIR traffic shaping? lol

That's my thought. The claimed it was how they detected if you were a live client so that they could release that IP address.