ATF Agent "Unjustly Locked-up Abroad" but he is actually in a U.S. Territory!!!

[JG-Man]

This is crazy to think that we are giving the Virgin Islands all kinds of money and assistance including U.S. Federal Law Enforcement Agents stationed there and they turn around and tell us that the U.S. Constitution doesn't necessarily "follow the flag" over to their "Territory" -- it supposed to be a U.S. Territory last time I checked! They have arrested and charged an ATF agent stationed there with MURDER for defending a female neighbor who was running away from her CRAZED, VIOLENT, 260 lbs of NAKED, DRUNK husband, WHO WAS ALSO HIGH ON ILLEGAL DRUGS AS WELL, AND ASSAULTING HER WITH HIS FISTS AND LARGE ROCKS. She ran to her neighbor, the ATF agent who was nearby and jumped in his government car for safety. The man came at them both with a long, metal MAGLITE flashlight and got shot and killed by the agent defending them both from deadly force (yes trying to bash someone's head in with a metal pipe, while you are high on drugs is considered deadly force in the U.S) - THE ATF policy/REVIEW BOARD CLEARED THE INCIDENT AS A "GOOD SHOOT", IS IT ACCEPTABLE USE OF FORCE DEFENDING HIMSELF AND THE WOMAN OR MURDER? ITS apparently NOT OK FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND OTHERS IN THE U.S. TERRITORY OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS!! PLEASE PASTE THE LINK BELOW FROM THE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ASSOCIATION'S WEBSITE: WWW.FLEOA.ORG and read it for yourselves, and then please write or email your congress-person or senator!

http://fleoa.org/downloads/Will%27sHonor.pdf

[JG-Man]

Has anyone been to the FLEOA site to read the Virgin Islands story? I haven't heard a peep from anyone, usually us Jeepers are a patriotic bunch. I told my wife about it and she got fired up about this issue.

[Mudderoy]

I didn't see anywhere the justification for the murder charge, I mean other than a dead person that was alive.

Sounds like someone refused to give a bribe to someone to me.

[4x4Dalton]

It looks to me as the VI is wanting to make a name for themselves at the cost of a American who only did what he had no choice but to do.

[JG-Man]

Yeah, "Murder" means it was pre-meditated or planned! Manslaughter is more appropriate for "he was alive and now he's dead - what happened here" situations.

By charging Murder, they are not even acknowledging the fact that he was an ATF agent they are saying he's just some guy who happened to own a gun and I guess they think he should have waited for the "cops" to arrive as the huge, crazy, drugged out, drunk naked guy was attacking them with large paving stones and metal objects?? It was hard to figure out what they were saying he should have done differently until that V.I. Judge actually said the "U.S. Constitution doesn't necessarily follow the flag" here in the V.I.; then it seems clear she's saying we have kangaroo courts and we can do whatever the people with the power feel like doing (like withholding corroborating witness statements and toxicology reports that show he is innocent) - thanks for all your U.S. dollars, military/law enforcement support and the right to call ourselves a "Territory of the United States!" He was assigned there to help them control gun/violent crime.

That's why I have written a Congressman and a Senator about this. How can his/our elected officials sit around and let this happen? If he was in the military in Afghanistan I'm sure it would have been on the news by now. I don't see the difference.

:yellowribbon::patriot::rant:

[Mudderoy]

Yeah, "Murder" means it was pre-meditated or planned! Manslaughter is more appropriate for "he was alive and now he's dead - what happened here" situations.

By charging Murder, they are not even acknowledging the fact that he was an ATF agent they are saying he's just some guy who happened to own a gun and I guess they think he should have waited for the "cops" to arrive as the huge, crazy, drugged out, drunk naked guy was attacking them with large paving stones and metal objects?? It was hard to figure out what they were saying he should have done differently until that V.I. Judge actually said the "U.S. Constitution doesn't necessarily follow the flag" here in the V.I.; then it seems clear she's saying we have kangaroo courts and we can do whatever the people with the power feel like doing (like withholding corroborating witness statements and toxicology reports that show he is innocent) - thanks for all your U.S. dollars, military/law enforcement support and the right to call ourselves a "Territory of the United States!" He was assigned there to help them control gun/violent crime.

That's why I have written a Congressman and a Senator about this. How can his/our elected officials sit around and let this happen? If he was in the military in Afghanistan I'm sure it would have been on the news by now. I don't see the difference.

:yellowribbon::patriot::rant:

What I don't understand is the motivation. I mean was the guy killed someone's relative, is the guy that did the shooting involved with the woman, something doesn't add up.

I fear that if we are not vigilant that we all will face this same rule of law. You have the right to die, basically.

[CT99XJ]

I think it's stupid.

Also, is it a bad thing when all i thought about reading this thread was how my AW4 needed a fluid flush??

[JG-Man]

I agree with Muddie, I can't figure the motivation; there has been no info that he knew the woman other than as a neighbor.

[JG-Man]

Well, the agent's lawyers got a new Judge (ie non corrupt) but it actually still went to trial. The day of the trial the defense attorney was denied access to the courtroom because he was carrying an example of the MAG-light flashlight that the deceased was threatening everyone with. They said he couldn't bring it in because it was "deadly weapon!" That's why the shoot was justified right - a steel pipe IS A DEADLY WEAPON!?? (plus the 250 lbs of violent, charging, naked, drugged out and drunk guy)
After the Virgin Islands put on their witnesses (who even contradicted each other) and the scientific evidence from the coronor's report the new Judge DISMISSED the case.

[bluedragon436]

Glad to hear that... I think he was justified to do what he did... I mean regardless of whether he knew the lady or not... if a big guy comes running towards me threatening me with a weapon of any type, especially a large mag-lite... I would shoot him too... not sure I would go for a kill shot, but would def. put the guy on the ground... But I am glad to hear that they didn't actually charge this guy... and I hope that this hasn't hurt his career either..

[Mudderoy]

Someone in our government should have put their foot on the back of the right person's neck and taken care of this long ago.

[XJ Rat]

Someone in our government should have put their foot on the back of the right person's neck and taken care of this long ago.

Government care? Thats a joke, right?
Obama and Holder are too busy congratulating each other to care about a common worker. Besides, gotta be a male muslim who has actually broken the law and wants to get away with it before either one of those two will step in and offer any support.

God help us all until 2012.

[XJ Rat]

... I would shoot him too... not sure I would go for a kill shot, but would def. put the guy on the ground.....

Bro, that type of logic will get you killed fast. Do not shoot unless you have to. If you must shoot, center mass until the target is neutralized.

Remember, it is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Mudderoy]

Bro, that type of logic will get you killed fast. Do not shoot unless you have to. If you must shoot, center mass until the target is neutralized.

Remember, it is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Absolutely! Kindness will get you killed, or worse someone else. I told my wife, you shoot 3 times, if they are still moving shoot 3 more times, repeat until you feel safe.

[Firemanray]

....... If you must shoot, center mass until the target is neutralized.


This is what I was taught in my CHL course. The target scoring only counted in the "center mass" area also. We were also taught to use any means nessessary to neutralize the situation BEFORE we had to shoot, up to and including showing our weapon.

This is my preferred outcome::D


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/firemanray21/RangeTarget.jpg

[JG-Man]

What I don't understand is the motivation. I mean was the guy killed someone's relative, is the guy that did the shooting involved with the woman, something doesn't add up.

I fear that if we are not vigilant that we all will face this same rule of law. You have the right to die, basically.

I think (heard through the grapevine) the motivation was that a lot of corrupt policemen had gotten arrested in the drug and gun sting operations the FBI and ATF were sent down there to do and they were looking for payback. Looking for any situation to arrest a U.S. Law enforcement agent...

[JG-Man]

Bro, that type of logic will get you killed fast. Do not shoot unless you have to. If you must shoot, center mass until the target is neutralized.

I have to agree with XJ Rat, what U.S. Law enforcement and Military Training teaches is to use deadly force to "stop a deadly threat" the best way to do that consistently is to aim for center mass. It's not like Lethal Weapon I out there where you take your time and aim at a stationary paper target and make a smiley face at 50 yards with a pistol. The target is moving up, down, forward and coming at you, you (the shooter) are making decisions in a split second under extreme stress. Even if you could say should the guy through the shoulder (like in the movies "don't worry, it's a clean shot that went in and out through the shoulder") there is no guarantee that the subject wouldn't die from that particular wound later either. What could also happen is that a 250lb guy that's high on drugs and booze would not be affected enough by getting shot in an outer extremite like a arm, leg or shoulder and he would still close the gap between you and him, clock you just once in the head or neck with the giant metal MAGlight flashlight/pipe and you would either be dead or unconscious before you fired a shot. Then he would take your gun from your unconscious body and you can make up the ending yourself.

The agent did start CPR immediately on the guy, but he died anyway.

[JG-Man]

Someone in our government should have put their foot on the back of the right person's neck and taken care of this long ago.

What was done was a lot of lobbying by many law enforcement organizations, thousands of law enforcement supporters wrote their congressmen/women and Senators, called the White House and Holder asking for DOJ-OIG intervention, calling for dissmissal of the unsupported charges, removal of the criminal case out of the Virgin Islands to the U.S. Court System (the real one) etc. etc. There was even a protest staged outside of Congress in D.C. by federal agents. Several U.S. Law enforcement agencies pulled all their agents out of the VI. -- what resulted was a handfull of Congressmen led by a new, young, Congressman Lee (NY) and joined by Chuck Shummer joined the cry. but as we now know - it STILL went to trial in the VI (not acceptable intervention by our elected officials in my book). :patriot:

BTW -- There has been NO INFORMATION that the ATF agent knew the battered woman he defended other than his neighbor. Ya'll can read more if you are interested at www.FLEOA.org

[Mudderoy]

What was done was a lot of lobbying by many law enforcement organizations, thousands of law enforcement supporters wrote their congressmen/women and Senators, called the White House and Holder asking for DOJ-OIG intervention, calling for dissmissal of the unsupported charges, removal of the criminal case out of the Virgin Islands to the U.S. Court System (the real one) etc. etc. There was even a protest staged outside of Congress in D.C. by federal agents. Several U.S. Law enforcement agencies pulled all their agents out of the VI. -- what resulted was a handfull of Congressmen led by a new, young, Congressman Lee (NY) and joined by Chuck Shummer joined the cry. but as we now know - it STILL went to trial in the VI (not acceptable intervention by our elected officials in my book). :patriot:

BTW -- There has been NO INFORMATION that the ATF agent knew the battered woman he defended other than his neighbor. Ya'll can read more if you are interested at www.FLEOA.org

I really applicate the follow up on this post. It's good to hear the ending an the background. :thumbsup:

[4x4Dalton]

Great to hear the Agent didnt get any time for this. I do have to agree with XJ Rat. If someone that size is charging me,I am goin for the kill shot. He had been warned to stop and didnt, so he had his warning. After one and they dont listen its go time. And our government needs a wake up call. I mean come on this man is a protector of our God Given rights and our homeland. And our " Greatest Governing Body" :pee: sits on its butts and lets it go as far as it did. I am a proud AMERICAN and to this day this story still gets under my skin how they let this go down. :patriot:

[JG-Man]

You guys are going to love this then. Read this letter I came across (don't know if its real, but sounds like what goes on at the TSA checkpoints.
=========================================
As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan , I witnessed the
following:

When we were on our way back from Afghanistan , we flew out of Baghram
Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body scanners (no
groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine yards.
Our first stop was Shannon , Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to
stop at Indianapolis , Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the
Indiana National Guard. That's where the stupid started.

First, everyone was forced to get off the plane-even though the plane
wasn't refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane, rather than
let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed from the plane to
a holding area. No vending machines, no means of escape. Only a
male/female latrine.

It's probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons.
Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were also
carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine guns. Of
course, the weapons weren't loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo
well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at Shannon customs.

The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us unload
all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it reinspected.
Keep in mind, this cargo had been unpacked, inspected piece by piece by
U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing dogs give it a
one-hour run through. After two hours of sitting in this holding area,
the TSA decided not to reinspect our Cargo-just to inspect us again:
Soldiers on the way home from war, who had already been inspected,
reinspected and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever.
So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.

This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were
carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying
pistols.

So we're in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had
his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it
gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a
pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the Soldier that
they're going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went
something like this:

TSA Guy: You can't take those on the plane.

Soldier: What? I've had them since we left country.

TSA Guy: You're not suppose to have them.

Soldier: Why?

TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.

Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a
weapon. And I'm allowed to take it on.

TSA Guy: Yeah but you can't use it to take over the plane. You don't
have bullets.

Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?

TSA Guy: [awkward silence]

Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the f**k
out of here. I'll buy you a new set.

Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]
To top it off, the tsa demanded we all be swabbed for "explosive
residue" detection. Everyone failed, [go figure, we just came home from
a war zone], because we tested positive for "Gun Powder Residue". Who
the F**K is hiring these people?

This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233
people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine
guns-but nothing that could have been used as a weapon.
Can someone please tell me What the F**K happened to OUR country while
we were gone?

Sgt. Mad Dog Tracy

[Mudderoy]

Government is stupid.

[bluedragon436]

Not like I have to tell you JG-Man... but the govt. never does anything that makes any real sense... not real sure why that is... that is why I had "deploying" is all the BS like that..

[XJ Rat]

I once read a sign that said, "I will not talk about my neighbor until I have walked a mile in his moccassins".

Apparently Obama and a good part of his administration never heard of this. Heck Obama has never held a real job in the private sector. He only knows going to school and government jobs. He was a community organizer. I have to ask what the heck is that and what did he really do?

My bottom line is very few in Washington have a clue. Career politicians have no idea what the world is about. They have been insulated their entire life. Starting with school. No wonder we are in a world of hurt these days. :mad0090: :(