Codertimt's XJ

[codertimt]

I've been writing up blog posts about my work on my Cherokee, but figured more like minded individuals would find appreciation in them if I also posted here, so I will also document here. First of all, this being my first 4wd vehicle, I have to comment that 4L makes getting the vehicle up on ramps very, very easy. With a 2wd vehicle, I'm constantly worried about giving it too much throttle as I'm trying to go up the ramps. I just put the jeep in 4L and up the ramps it creeped...no throttle required.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8x7o8WG92I/AAAAAAAABFk/RAY-ddHWW1k/s400/DSC00051.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YQ9Opo-_JCSzXuiWMJgSrA?feat=embedwebsite)

Nice pink "drop cloth" isn't it. I really need to get the garage cleaned out so I can move the show out of the dirt and pollen. In fact that has been set as my goal. Lift kit can be purchased once garage has been cleaned...I now have motivation.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8x7oTPj2eI/AAAAAAAABFg/h4SWTD9Ne-U/s400/DSC00050.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OM9QZZvEFdsITJiovJuzgA?feat=embedwebsit)http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8x7peqPm6I/AAAAAAAABFo/K8Jmjcer2mg/s400/DSC00052.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/B-rb4JynGM20V0M4XCKFBw?feat=embedwebsite)

So, first thing on the list was fix leaking transfer case seal. So I dropped the driveshaft and then realized, that my transfer case didn't look like I expected it to. Apparently '96 models got the newer style transfer case that '97+ models have and thus there is this housing that is pressed on the shaft. Well, after hitting it a few times with a screwdriver/hammer, I decided it wasn't going to easily come off and quit for the night. I thought I would google the "proper" way to get it off, but didn't find anything. So the next day I went after it with the screwdriver again. Bent the lip enough to get a good angle with the screwdriver and a few taps later it was off. Unfortunatly it was also unusable and I still need a replacement now. But it's fine without it currently...just would make me feel better before going offroad.
Anyway, after remove a washer and lock ring(which I actually bought a tool for that made it really easy), a little more time with my screwdriver and hammer released the seal from it's location and a quick visual inspection after slipping the new seal from it's box revealed that I didn't have the correct part.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S71JbxgczeI/AAAAAAAABCk/dpNkFBFmv1E/s400/IMG_0496.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wseT57G4XUFg_y0a5CDZPw?feat=embedwebsite)http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S71JmP6v0GI/AAAAAAAABCo/76x3MGoRLcI/s400/IMG_0495.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xDPMUAjyWtx7d3FqchdO0Q?feat=embedwebsite)

So looks like time to head to the parts store. Unfortunately, they couldn't locate the right part number at all. Even drug up a giant binder from under the counter, but they didn't have any part listed for any Cherokee model that looked like this seal. So my work for this night was over.
I went to the dealership the next day and they had two possibles listed, one in stock...and it was thankfully the correct one. Unfortunately it was also $35 as opposed to $10 like the other. But it was what I needed. After working in the yard until dark, I drug out the trouble light and got the seal put in. Replaced the driveshaft and was finally able to have a feeling of accomplishment. I could now mark one item off my list. Well, by this point the weekend rolled around and it was a perfect Saturday for fluid change...as long as you don't mind copious amounts of pollen in your fluid. The wind was blowing an you could actually see the pollen flowing through the air...again need to clean the garage. The transmission service when fairly uneventfully. I drained the pan using the drain plug(first transmission I've had that ever had a drain plug), then added 4qts or so new fluid and started the Jeep up and let it circulate the new fluid a bit, then drained that mixed fluid again and dropped the pan to change the filter also. Had a little mishap, dropping a bolt into the oil catcher pan, but retrieval went well. Put it back together and added some fluid. Went to crank it to let it warm up to check the fluid level and...CLICK.

What? A battery issue? Well apparently, something was wrong with it. It would act okay until you put some draw on it and then nothing. Dug an old battery out of the boat and put it on and it cranked slow, but worked. So I assumed bad battery. Well, I was wrong. Went to Wal-Mart and they tested it as good. I bought a new battery anyway figuring their equipment must be screwed up and headed back home. Hooked the old battery up first and my Dad(who was there doing some welding for me) watched as I tried to crank it and saw a spark jumping from the + cable. Turns out it was a bad connection. Put on a new swanky chrome plated terminal I had bought I some point for a car amp install and it's been working fine since then.

Okay, time to back up a few hours now. The first part of the day was spent not on the battery, but on the oil filter mount. I had purchased an o-ring kit earlier in the week and set to work installing it. I knew it was going to be a pain getting to mount off, but didn't quite realize how bad it was really going to be. First off was the needed tools. I knew I would need a 60T torx bit and had already purchased one. I also knew it wouldn't actually fit on a ratchet in the space provided so I quickly went to cutting with my dremel. Now I had a bit that just happened to fit in a 12mm wrench. I have seen others make a tool and welding the bit in the wrench, but without a welder(Dad wasn't there yet) I improvised. I simply folded over a paper towel and wedged the bit in the box end of the wrench with paper towel. Had to redo it a couple time, but it worked. Only problem now is I needed leverage to break it loose. I didn't have anything to use as a cheater pipe that was large enough to fit over the end of the wrench, so I cut end off and used my jack handle. Worked like a charm...well it at least worked. Then it was just moving the wrench a 1/4 turn at a time to get it loose. All in all took about 2 hours to get off. A bit of mistake I made was that I had figured all of the work was going to take place from the top side of the vehicle, so I took it off the ramps...unfortunately this was not the case and I needed to get to it from underneath. Couldn't get it back on the ramp though, because the engine was sans oil. So I got to work in a tight spot...finally got it off though...

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8x7wkQdHiI/AAAAAAAABF4/tgSmtINuDbQ/s400/DSC00055.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/U6eZ0aIXXTi3TupKA9rr4Q?feat=embedwebsite)http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8x7xe0aH7I/AAAAAAAABF8/U9AcLuyW5XA/s400/DSC00056.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CFLi5E4iugZ_Qdkp1cVz8w?feat=embedwebsite)

If you look at the second pic above you can see the main leakage point. The flattened o-ring just wasn't doing much anymore...

The rest of the job went pretty smoothly, just took some time to get the mount back on. Filled it up with oil and could mark another couple things off the list.

To be continued... :thumbsup:

[Mudderoy]

Very nice. :thanx:

[Melissa]

Can't wait to see more, thanks for the teaser :D

[alwaysxj]

wow you have alot of time on your hands to sit in front of the computer. but thanks for doing that.

[codertimt]

Yeah, my family makes fun of me for my "play by play" accounts of whatever I happen to be working on at the time... It doesn't take too long to type out since I'm just documenting the timeline, and I'm sitting at work in front of the computer anyway...might as well do something interesting. :D

[alwaysxj]

well if you can do it and get paid to do it then type away my friend.

[codertimt]

After getting the fluids changed and leaks fixed that I wanted, I decided I wanted to take a look at the coolant system. Actually the temp gauge needle sweeping past 210 while waiting in a drive through prompted me to look at the coolant system.

So here is the data I was acting on at the time...


Going down the road temp is fine...actually seems to run cool. With the exception of the night I drove it home. It ran around 210 on the interstate.
At idle it eventually goes above 210.
Don't really notice much fluid movement at idle with cap off. Once at temp blip throttle and coolant moves.
Top radiator hose never really gets hard or feels like it has water in it...but it must...
Spin test of manual fan clutch shows fan harder to turn when cool than when warm.
Elec fan never seems to comes on.


So first thing I do is buy a new radiator cap as the old one looked rough. I'm pretty sure the old one wasn't holding any pressure. No difference made, but it needed to be done. Everything I've read points to the fan clutch. This makes sense if it's not turning fast enough as it gets warmer at idle it wouldn't move enough air.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8x_wJj1xKI/AAAAAAAABGI/NNCW_B7USQk/s400/IMG_0499.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jFsS8cE95Vhptsx6Ewo7oQ?feat=embedwebsite)

I was certainly hopeful when I saw the old clutch. It was certainly nasty enough to be causing a problem. Unfortunately no real difference. I can tell the fan is moving faster, it roars on cold startup like it's supposed to so I think it needed to be replaced, but it's not the root cause.

Next is the thermostat, technically this should have been first, but I just assumed it must be working since it runs cools down the road. I actually hypothesized it was sticking open and that was the reason it was running cool down the road, and hoped maybe it was stickign closed sometimes and causing it to run warm. So I get it out and find this...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S8spZ624PUI/AAAAAAAABEk/ObPGjb4YFfY/s400/IMG_0501.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2u4WyOAWe_RvbO6gGZIEQw?feat=embedwebsite)

Not so much stuck open as cracked open, but definitely open. This explains why it runs cool going down the road. Also could explain the one time interstate warming if the parts got turned wrong and blocked water flow. But could it explain the heat at idle? Maybe if obstructing the slower water flow...nah, I'm not that lucky. So that leaves me with the following list of possible culprits...

By design the small fan that only covers 1/2 of the 12" tall radiator isn't going to do the job by itself. The auxiliary fan is needed at idle and it isn't kicking on when it should...
Gauge is off a bit and it's not actually getting up to 220 where the fan would kick on anyway, so that would mean a) the fan relay is fine and b) it's cooling "well enough" anyway.
Water pump isn't effective at idle. He supposedly changed it recently... Giving some revs at idle does help a tiny bit, but not anything spectacular.
Radiator has lost effectiveness, works okay with forced air at speed, but the fan at idle isn't moving enough air for the radiator working at lowered efficiency... So I could either a) try to flush or b) just go ahead and buy new 3 row radiator...


After driving and observing a bit more here is what I'm seeing. Thermostat working correctly while moving. Needle stays about 2-3 needle widths from 210, you can see it rise a little then fall as the thermostat opens.
Waiting in the drive through, the temp starts to rise. I let it continue to rise and at around 4 or so needle widths past 210(apparently this is where 220 is), the electric fan kicks on and the temp drops back down to 210. Not sure how much lower it might have gotten cause I started moving again after that.

So that leaves me at the following...



It's an airflow/cooling efficiency thing. While moving it cools fine, so the radiator isn't completely clogged. By design the manual fan only covers half of the radiator and the electric auxiliary covers the other half. Once the electric kicks in it will cool back down to 210, so that is working correctly.
If it was 100 degrees outside I would just call it good and deal with it, but the ambient temp was closer to 60, so once it warms up I'm not sure the system will cope.
I've found scum/buildup signs of previous bars-leak in the radiator, so I was hoping there was scale buildup reducing efficiency that an over the counter cleaner could help with. Although it was needed by the looks of the dirty water I flushed, didn't really make much difference. Haven't really driven it to much since the flush to really get a good feeling...
I've wired in an override switch on the electric fan as I would rather it kick in sooner and prevent the temp going to 220 instead of just cooling it back down. (Once I do a little write up, I will post that process.)


So that's where I currently sit, with a small addendum that tonight I went to the store and it appears the thermostat is stuck open. I bought the fancy one that fails in the open position and apparently something has failed. Temp guage never made it past 150 or so... So I guess I will tear into that again and then if all can be made well. Then we'll just drive it into the summer months and see what happens...

[4.3LXJ]

Coder

Do you have intact shrouds? You might just have an air flow issue. I have seen many XJs heat up at idle and then the efan comes on and then it cools down. Also check your fan clutch. The fan should spin with some resistance when cool.

[Mudderoy]

Yeah, my family makes fun of me for my "play by play" accounts of whatever I happen to be working on at the time... It doesn't take too long to type out since I'm just documenting the timeline, and I'm sitting at work in front of the computer anyway...might as well do something interesting. :D

When you go back and review what you did and it saves you hours or hundreds of dollars, you can laugh at them. :thumbsup:

[codertimt]

Coder

Do you have intact shrouds? You might just have an air flow issue. I have seen many XJs heat up at idle and then the efan comes on and then it cools down. Also check your fan clutch. The fan should spin with some resistance when cool.

Yes, shrouds intact. New fan clutch seems to be working correctly. With current temps in the 70s it has to idle for quite a while before the heat builds up underhood and the temp creeps up.

Tested out the fan override today and it worked great(not counting the CEL). Idled and puttered around the yard for 30+ mins and with the e-fan helping out it stayed right around 195. What engineer decided only having airflow through half the radiator at idle was a good idea. So, I think I'm good, the upcoming summer months will tell the real story though.

[codertimt]

Even though I've already mention bits and pieces of this info already, here is the full recap of the rest of my cooling system work. Two things were left on the table to do, those were coolant flush and auxiliary fan override switch.

No pictures of the first item, it was pretty much just a boring process of filling and draining the radiator. I went with a fill/run till warm/drain/fill/run till warm/drain...repeat ad nauseam method using the cleaner you leave in your radiator for 3-6 hours of runtime. No particular reason for doing it this way, but after about the 5th cycle I was wishing I had done a simple power flush. For the first couple of drain steps, I also ran some water through via the hose that connects to the top of the thermostat housing...a little mini-flush if you will.

The first cycle was very dirty, so I accomplished a little bit at least. The second cycle was cloudy with each subsequent cycle get more clear. The 4th cycle looked pretty nice, so I switch from tap water to distilled at that point. I basically put a total of 5 gallons of distilled though the system with the final cycle leaving about 1.5 gallons of distilled in the system to which I added the antifreeze to top the system off. Ended up with about 55/45 water/coolant mix.

Unfortunately the new coolant by itself didn't really solve anything. After enough time sitting at idle the motor still gets hot enough to kick on the auxiliary fan. It did seem to possibly cool it down quicker than before though...no hard numbers on that though. But again, it was needed maintenance so no real loss.

So, given that when both fans are on pulling air through both halves of the radiator the cooling system seems capable of keeping the temp in check, it seems to me that the answer is to be able to turn the cooling fan at will. I found some instructions and set to work making the modification. The basics of it is that the PCM brings a wire to ground when it want to trigger the fan, so we splice into that wire and put it to ground with our switch.

First I found the magic wire in the PCM wiring harness. I just stripped back a little of the insulation and looped another wire around it and then stuck a huge ugly glob of solder on it to hold it tight(need new soldering iron tip...at least that's the excuse I'm going with). A quick test of turning the key in the ON position and touching that wire to ground showed that it indeed works as the fan kicked on...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S9TV4cF0gYI/AAAAAAAABIE/KQwFL1fd-FY/s400/IMG_0505.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kup_m0bV-0uWqXNQhv-fHA?feat=embedwebsite)http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S9TVwgYcOXI/AAAAAAAABH0/houzk8EnxfM/s400/IMG_0506.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ADx_sSVMwpHD9QRcvIrfdg?feat=embedwebsite)

So that leaves me just in need of a switch. After brainstorming a bit, I decided to raid my computer graveyard in the attic and pulled a switch from an old power supply. It fit perfectly in the small section at the top/bottom of the filler panel to the right side of my instrument cluster in my '96.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S9TVphoMgcI/AAAAAAAABHw/83nxCLBFl2M/s400/IMG_0507.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yE_sZhcZv3R2YuoiHckRoA?feat=embedwebsite)

Only drama here was getting the instrument panel bezel off. It was tight...I'm probably missing some trick, and I need to figure it out before I take it off again...

All was well until a couple days ago when I noticed the Jeep not warming up again...the failsafe thermostat had apparently tripped. I'm not sure what the triggering condition is, but I decided I would rather deal with a normal thermostat failing closed once in a blue moon versus the failsafe tripping every other day, so I just replaced it with a normal one. Problem solved.

Tested out my fan and it worked great. Played around in the yard and let it idle for 30+ minutes and with the fan on the temp guage was steady on 195. Still have to see how it reacts in the summer heat, but I feel good as of now. My only problem is that the switch ended up throwing a CEL because the PCM doesn't like that wire being grounded when it's not expecting it. I've found a fix involving a relay that will be my next little project. About to be done with the little stuff and ready to move on to the fun stuff. Hopefully will be starting on the lift next week...

[4.3LXJ]

Coder

If you wire that relay so it powers the fan in parallel with the stock relay, it will not affect the ECM at all.

[Mudderoy]

Coder

If you wire that relay so it powers the fan in parallel with the stock relay, it will not affect the ECM at all.

I have my switch now, I need to do this too.

[Voldemort]

If you own a XJ you need one of these.
http://base0.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00915510000_20090812160100555%3Fhei%3D500%26wid%3D 500%26op_sharpen%3D1&size=20&dhm=fa9217de&hl=en
It is a Stant 12270 30 Pound Cooling System and Pressure Cap Tester, I have had XJ's with every single thing brand new in the cooling system and still over heating. Used this and found a small leak which would have saved alot of money and time. plus it get the all the air out of the system which will also cause over heating. Now I run them with no shroud and no electric fan on 100*+ days no prob.

That TC cone seal comes in handy if you want to do a hack-N-Tap, you do not have to buy a flange seal which saves you $50!

[codertimt]

If you own a XJ you need one of these.
http://base0.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00915510000_20090812160100555%3Fhei%3D500%26wid%3D 500%26op_sharpen%3D1&size=20&dhm=fa9217de&hl=en
It is a Stant 12270 30 Pound Cooling System and Pressure Cap Tester, I have had XJ's with every single thing brand new in the cooling system and still over heating. Used this and found a small leak which would have saved alot of money and time. plus it get the all the air out of the system which will also cause over heating. Now I run them with no shroud and no electric fan on 100*+ days no prob.

That TC cone seal comes in handy if you want to do a hack-N-Tap, you do not have to buy a flange seal which saves you $50!

I'm apt to agree with you here. Having the proper tools to diagnose a problem is definitely better than just throwing parts at it(says the guy who's just been throwing parts at it). It doesn't look to pricey either...

Thanks for the feedback...

[4.3LXJ]

Also some radiator shops will test your cap for free. Of course they want you to buy the cap from them then.

[pvt.Tadpol xj]

Sound's like you have nailed down the main weakness. These xj's tend to run a little hot in the summer but keeping the temp's down a little is alway's good. I have done the exact same thing to my 91 laredo in this last year and added a cowl piece to my hood to get that hot air out of there in the summer work's like a charm. A lot of people have told me that a 3-core radiator will help a little more.

[prcjeep]

If you own a XJ you need one of these.
http://base0.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00915510000_20090812160100555%3Fhei%3D500%26wid%3D 500%26op_sharpen%3D1&size=20&dhm=fa9217de&hl=en
It is a Stant 12270 30 Pound Cooling System and Pressure Cap Tester, I have had XJ's with every single thing brand new in the cooling system and still over heating. Used this and found a small leak which would have saved alot of money and time. plus it get the all the air out of the system which will also cause over heating. Now I run them with no shroud and no electric fan on 100*+ days no prob.

That TC cone seal comes in handy if you want to do a hack-N-Tap, you do not have to buy a flange seal which saves you $50!

I have useed this tool a couple of times on my xj... You can "rent" them at parts stores too... I know Oreilly does for sure, just pay for it as the deposit and then return it for full refund

[codertimt]

Finally had the time and energy to put the relay in place for my fan switch. It's not pretty, but it works like a champ...no more CEL. I attempted to just use a diode first, but for some reason it just wouldn't work for me. It worked to stop the computer from turning the fan on at all when I had it on backwards, but didn't cure the CEL when correctly wired. Oh well, the relay was only $6.99, so no biggie in the grand scheme.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-cnf6nhKLI/AAAAAAAABJI/XdcqPLyhNek/s400/IMG_0520.JPG

Only other thing accomplished were plugging a rear tire after driving through the yard and apparently running over a particularly think piece of grass, causing a puncture</sarcasm>. And putting the spare down on the front after a nail managed to slash the sidewall. I really hate these tires... :sad0147: Oh well, lift should be here Wednesday, tires to follow once it's on...

[codertimt]

And it's finally time for the fun stuff...

4.5" Zone Offroad Lift

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-tFKR_PIeI/AAAAAAAABLA/ntV-vO_5prc/s400/IMG_0526.JPG

[Mudderoy]

And it's finally time for the fun stuff...

4.5" Zone Offroad Lift

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-tFKR_PIeI/AAAAAAAABLA/ntV-vO_5prc/s400/IMG_0526.JPG

Keep them pictures coming! :popcorn:

[codertimt]

Well, I started installing the lift kit today. Got going at around 10am doing a final straightening of the garage so I could work fairly freely. Here's the starting point.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vTbWIfBI/AAAAAAAABMk/cCX6IQeP1Ns/s400/DSC00060.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714451827227666)

Started off by putting the bushing and grease fittings in the lower control arms. Should have done this earlier, but it didn't take too long.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vXmxqsPI/AAAAAAAABMs/PhHjCnSWccI/s400/DSC00062.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714523614982386)

Next it was bye-bye to the old shocks and starting to disconnect the sway bar and brake line brackets.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vZtgKN0I/AAAAAAAABMw/rzAVjqZP-iI/s400/DSC00063.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714559780337474)http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vbdgmGFI/AAAAAAAABM0/UXI_V2G4On4/s400/DSC00064.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714589846935634)

Next removed the sway bar links and then ran into my first snag. The instructions said to separate the pitman arm from the steering linkage...and it said to do so by striking the pitman arm to release the tapered seat. Well I struck and I struck and I pried and I struck some more...nothing. Seems like I needed a ball joint separator/pickle fork type tool to get this apart. So I was left with two options. Load three kids up and head to town to rent the tool or skip this step and hope it wasn't too important. I chose the later...probably not the best decision of the day.

So after breaking for lunch to feed the hungry masses at the house, I continued on. Removed the old springs and drilled and tapped a couple holes to install included bumpstops.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vdA9rU9I/AAAAAAAABM4/7vlXnwc_-zo/s400/DSC00065.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714616544023506)http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vfLJHvlI/AAAAAAAABM8/AKAc6gzFNeg/s400/DSC00066.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714653636116050)

Next was the part I was dreading the most for some reason. Installing the new coils. The old coils came off easy by just drooping the axel, but the new springs are obviously much longer....plus we just installed a bumpstop we have to get over. I already new I needed a coil spring compressor and so had it on hand. The last time I compressed coils I had a tough time with it. This time it all went well though. Took a little bit to get the compressors off as obviously there is less room to work when the spring in in place, but overall it went rather smoothly.

The next part...not so smoothly. Had to attach the new lower control arms and it appears my axle found it way rearward an inch or so. I think this just might be the reason to disconnect the steering linkage as would allow more free forward movement of the axle. After messing with it for a while I got the driver's side connected, but the passenger's side just would not line up...raised the axle up, lower it fully down, tried everywhere in between. Finally I was struck with a winning idea. I took a strap hooked it to the axle and the sway bar and pulled the axle forward the needed distance. The control arm slide into place after that. Put the shocks in place and was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vic2gGiI/AAAAAAAABNE/OiqT1H5O10Y/s400/DSC00068.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714709929466402)

Installed new brake line brackets, new sway bar links, drilled hole to relocate the track bar and started torquing everything down.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9vmFiCMjI/AAAAAAAABNM/PMBXv37KfiY/s400/DSC00070.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714772389081650)

Put the tires back on and by this time it was time to head in and make supper, so I called it quits for the day. I'm sure it will settle in, but currently the front is sitting at 5.5". The process continues tomorrow.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S-9voL-UE-I/AAAAAAAABNQ/CmEkFPbFDqM/s400/DSC00071.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5471714808478045154)

[4.3LXJ]

Looks good so far. You don't need it now, but there is a tool made just for pitman arms. Makes it real easy. It may settle a little in the front. I am waiting for my own to settle too.

[codertimt]

Day 2 of lift kit install. I had high hopes today the work would go quickly, but alas that was not to be the case.

Once I had it on stands and the wheels, shocks, sway bar off, I started on the leafs. Unbolted the u-bolts on one side and after putting a couple of clamps on, started taking the nut off the center pin. All was going well until the pin started turning...tried to hold it with some channel locks to no avail...Then I remembered I have vice-grips... They worked great and I had the spring pack apart. I put the add a leaf in the correct location and then decided I needed to deviate from the directions. The directions said to pull the springs back together with clamps... Well the AAL had some crazy arch compared to the stockers, and my little clamps weren't going to work out. So I just inserted the new center pin in the bottom two leafs and the new AAL and put them in place on the axle and jacked the axle back into place, compressing the springs and lining the other two springs up as I went along. Once it mostly together, I clamped it up good and tightened the center pin and put on the spring retainer clips.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S_DXcHJ14qI/AAAAAAAABOg/N3_uvCzfrfA/s400/IMG_0536.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5472110425211789986)

The other side went very smoothly and pretty quickly. Now it was time to work on the shackles. I had overlooked this as a trouble spot, but this was quite the time consumer. The first "problem" I ran into was the fact that I couldn't get the impact wrench in there. The ratchet obviously wasn't going to touch it, so it was time to pull out the hand tools. I used my new torque wrench with it's 18" handle for some leverage and started working. The passenger's side was tough, but I eventually got it off. The drivers came a little easier, but still required some grunt.

Once the shackles were off, there was another caveat. There is a protruding bumper bolt the instructions recommend cutting/removing. My grinder currently had an almost worn away disc on it, but I managed to get the job done. After that it was a cakewalk buttoning everything back up. Left the axle drooped down and jacked up the rear of the jeep to align the leafs with the extended shackles. The bolts dropped below the body, so I just hit them with the impact wrench to tighten...

That pretty much left installing the shocks and brake line bracket extension and the rear was done.

At this point, I decided to take a spin to see if I could get by without the transfer case drop... Definitely a no-go as I got bad vibes before getting up to any speed, turned directly around and brought it back home. Also noticed the added toe in from the lift made it handle ridiculously bad. So transfer case drop went in. Used a welder for the first time ever. Won't say I actually welded as that would be an insult to welders everywhere, but I did burn enough metal on a nut to allow me to back out the studs on the crossmember.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S_DWOyVJWpI/AAAAAAAABN0/deEvrhfgOrE/s400/IMG_0541.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5472109096772131474)

After that was in place I started trying to adjust the toe, but here my ancient hand me down vice grips failed me. I just couldn't get the tire rod to budge on one end. So I'm going to pick up a pipe wrench today at lunch and try again tonight. Then evaluate the vibes with the TC drop and see if I will need to get some shims to correct the pinion angle caused by the shackles...

Overall, I think it went fairly well. No real major snafus, zero broken bolts. Took me well over the estimated 5-6 hours, but this was the first time I've ever attempted something like this. Still have to get it on the road to give driving impressions, and still have to get tires to give offroad impressions...but we're making progress now...

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/S_DXDNjjzzI/AAAAAAAABOA/3298N1qw-7o/s400/IMG_0539.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#5472109997433540402)

[Mudderoy]

It really makes a big difference in how it feels to drive it, doesn't it? I love the sitting up higher, and it gets all kinds of looks.

Thanks for taking the time to share the installation with us. :thumbsup: :popcorn:

[4.3LXJ]

Nice transformation

[cantab27]

looking good mate

[codertimt]

Thanks guys.

Yep, I definitely like the higher driving stance...just seems right. Current tires are less than 27" actual height, so I'm looking at +2 more inches when I get the Trxus MTs on there. Next steps are body molding removal and probably pinstripe removal.

Got the toe set and steering wheel centered tonight and took it out for a drive. Made a huge difference in the way it handled. The transfer case drop took almost all the vibes out. Little bit accelerating through the 20s, but don't notice much after that; 45-50(where I had a vibration previously) actually feels smoother than before. I'm going to drive it for a couple days to get a better feel, but I think I'll still get some shims to correct the pinion angle. Trigonometry tells me the longer shackle should have made 3-4 degrees difference than stock....not sure what the difference the new spring arch might make. Before the TC drop I "measured" out 7-8 degrees difference between TC shaft and pinion. Quotes around the word measured because I was using an app on my iPhone as my angle finder, so not the best method. So I'm going to try to take some better measurements and figure I'll end up with some where around 4-6 degrees of shim...

Overall impressions on road were it handled pretty nice. Ride is not overly harsh at all. Of course, I don't think the 4 wore out shocks with 157K were too hard to win out over. Just a short test drive tonight, so I'll continue to give my impressions as I get more miles on it. So far, very happy and excited... Now to continue working down my list in no particular order...


Molding delete
Probably bedline where molding was...loosing all silver paint.
Pinstripe delete
Temp paint fix for peeling/cloudy clearcoat on hood/roof
Touchup roofrack paint
Front recovery
Rear hitch/recovery
Recovery gear
15x8 Soft 8s
31x10.5 Trxus MTs
U-joints(all)
Seat Covers


Okay, shouldn't have typed that out...I'm depressed now. :( :sad0147: :D

[prcjeep]

Everything looks great! I can't wait to get my jeep in the air! Thanks for the write-up!

[codertimt]

Well, I haven't posted any more this week because all is not well in jeep-land. Went on a bit longer test drive and although it drives nice and smooth at 55, the vibes at 30-40 are pretty bad. And getting on/off the gas around 40-45 uncovered some grinding type noises.

So I parked it and ordered some 6 degree shims... With TC drop in place that puts the TC angle at about -5.5 and the shims put the pinion angle at about 6. The math say this should work out...quite steep ujoint angle, but it should help alot at least compared to no shims...right?

Wrong, little bit better, but still not good enough to make me comfortable with it. So I ordered the Iron Rock Hack and Tap plus Front refurbed driveshaft today. Hopefully by the middle of next week I'll be back on track. :boohoo: Guess I should start on some of the exterior work while I'm waiting...

[4.3LXJ]

Your math was right I think. 6* is a lot. I only used a 4* with my equivalent set up to get the pinion pointing straight at the tcase. You should have set it up like this:

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/2joint_angle.gif

You might check and see if your slip yoke is in far enough. Sounds like that might have been the problem.

When you get your new stuff, you need to set up your driveline like this:

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/cv_angle.gif

Pinion should look like this:

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/IMG_0295.jpg

[codertimt]

Before shimming my pinion was at +12*. So maybe I'll get lucky and it will be good enough to not need to shim with the CV shaft...my luck it will still be too high...

Yeah, not enough yoke on the spline or too much ujoint angle...that's all I can really think the problem could be. The ujoint angle is like 12 degrees, so it's alot, but technically shouldn't cause a problem until higher rpms...not down at 30mph. That coupled with the fact that after getting the TC and Pinion angles very close the vibration hardly changed at all leads me to believe it's probably probably how far the slip yoke got pulled down the output shaft with the added height. Still seems like there should be enough, but that's not what the real world experience is telling me.

I pretty much knew from reading that this is where I would end up...I just hoped my setup was somehow special. :D Oh well I get to pull the leafs off the axle again and take out the shims now...and probably do it again once I measure with the new shaft... We'll call it good experience. :stars:

[codertimt]

Wow, long time no post. Been a busy summer thus far plus jeep frustration set in for awhile. When I last posted I was getting ready to do my Hack and Tap...well I managed to screw that up in about 4 different ways. I'll go ahead and document it though, just so other newbs might can learn something from my mistakes.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TAvOb6ia_AI/AAAAAAAABRY/p0N3kfKggtw/s288/IMG_0554.JPG

Started off taping off about an inch of the shaft and took the cutoff wheel to it. This part went quite well. Not quite like a hot knife through butter, but pretty quick. So I was left with this...

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TAvOT8TNqdI/AAAAAAAABRU/mGdZc_diAsk/s288/IMG_0555.JPG

Here is where the fun began. First the drilling. That all went fairly well until I stepped up to the final bit... First I had to go get a new bit because the one I ordered with the kit wasn't worth crap. Once I got a good bit I finished the drilling pretty quick. Then came the tap. I was careful. Only two 1/4 turns and then back it out. It went great...until I decided to make one final pass...yep broke off the tap. :( Long story short about 4 hours later I finally managed to back it out with a chisel and hammer. :smiley-gen165: So first newb mistake, don't use even a small ratchet to turn your tap. Use the handle designed for the purpose...and be even more careful than you think you need to be.

So, time to throw the yoke on and start bolting things up....right? So that's what I did... What I didn't realize is that the back of the yoke was hitting the larger part of the shaft coming out of the transfer case and not going all the way on the shaft. So I keep trying to tighten it and ended up bending that center section of the yoke. Plus it turns out my drilled hole was slightly off center. Anyway, I cut the yoke down to fit, but could never get the center section of the yoke perfectly flat to pull down correctly on the shaft with it's off center hole...so basically I still had vibes.

At first I didn't realize where the problem was so I did multiple sized of shims and then after figuring it out, I pulled the shaft multiple times trying to fix the issue to no avail. Finally I got tired of trying to patch my mess ups. and ordered this...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TEsaPjDUrOI/AAAAAAAABk4/BjdxKIXTusQ/s400/DSC00079.JPG

And a few hours later, I had the "real" SYE installed. Wish I would have went this route to begin with. It was actually quite easy...even with the transfer case still in the jeep.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TEsaNgnOC_I/AAAAAAAABk0/IOwiO8M5NtU/s400/DSC00078.JPG

Only caveat I had with this one was the speedo sensor bolt hole was metric on the new housing, so I had to run get a new bolt for that. Otherwise, besides having to make a pair of snap ring pliers out of an old pair of needle nose pliers it was just a matter of taking apart and putting back together.

So that brings us to today. Now the fun can begin. These arrived a few days ago...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TEsacAmpIAI/AAAAAAAABlM/3tfMPA0rrUs/s400/1000000015.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TEsaTY50UeI/AAAAAAAABlI/XOw0SmG-sho/s400/1000000016.JPG

I know Soft 8s are overdone now, but I really like them. Wanted to get Trxus MTs, but ended up going with Duratracs. Hopefully they will hold up better on the road anyway...

They mounted up really easy, put 6oz of Airsoft BBs in each one and mounted them up...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TEsZ-1VqXQI/AAAAAAAABkY/UukZAtjFCnU/s400/1000000021.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TEsaIeCj_5I/AAAAAAAABko/4DSD4pJ4iQA/s400/1000000019.JPG

Now...I can finally go offroading if I would like... It's about time...

Bigger pics can be found here if you want to look (http://picasaweb.google.com/codertimt/1996JeepCherokee#).

[4x4Dalton]

Lookin good.:thumbsup:

[Punisher]

Great write up!!!
making me want to start getting it up but I got to finish my rebuild on the motor...

[Punisher]

How are those add a leaf work out for ya? was it hard to put on or do you recommend doing a complete leaf change?
And another thing did them add a leaf really help lift the old springs up?

[codertimt]

How are those add a leaf work out for ya? was it hard to put on or do you recommend doing a complete leaf change?
And another thing did them add a leaf really help lift the old springs up?

Well, I haven't had them on that long, but thus far they're working and holding up fine. My leafs weren't in that bad of shape, so that might make some difference. It definitely changes the arch of the spring set though, and I ended up with at least a full 4.5" lift with the 1.5" from the shackle and the rest from the leaf.

Wasn't hard at all to put in. I didn't particularly follow the direction and don't really remember what they recommended, but I just ended up putting the leaf in place in the pack and compressing it by jacking the axle back into place. Had to line it up a few times as I went...then when compressed into place put some c clamps on it and finished up.

It does ride a bit rough, but not too bad. Not sure how much better shocks might help. But I would say if your trying to make your money stretch, do it. Otherwise go ahead and do the full pack. I'm sure I'll end up with full replacement packs at some point, but for now the zone offroad add a leaf is working a-ok...

Just realized I really need to update this thread also...I've put a few more goodies on since the last update...

[Punisher]

Well, I haven't had them on that long, but thus far they're working and holding up fine. My leafs weren't in that bad of shape, so that might make some difference. It definitely changes the arch of the spring set though, and I ended up with at least a full 4.5" lift with the 1.5" from the shackle and the rest from the leaf.

Wasn't hard at all to put in. I didn't particularly follow the direction and don't really remember what they recommended, but I just ended up putting the leaf in place in the pack and compressing it by jacking the axle back into place. Had to line it up a few times as I went...then when compressed into place put some c clamps on it and finished up.

It does ride a bit rough, but not too bad. Not sure how much better shocks might help. But I would say if your trying to make your money stretch, do it. Otherwise go ahead and do the full pack. I'm sure I'll end up with full replacement packs at some point, but for now the zone offroad add a leaf is working a-ok...

Just realized I really need to update this thread also...I've put a few more goodies on since the last update...

Kool I'd love to see more photos of that... I just might do the same and maybe when I get more money I'll add the full springs, I just want to get it up a little as sometimes when I want to reach inside the jeep from the outside I bang my head :headshake:

[codertimt]

Been awhile since I updated, so I'll do a little synopsis of the latest changes and what I still want to do.

Before hauling the kiddos on a long trip I figured I should sort my exhaust tip issue. If you remember the stock tip has a little bend in it that caused it to hit the next extended shackle. I solved this problem by cutting it off.

Now to fix the issue of the cut off exhaust. A chrome extension from Autozone will do the trick nicely. Roughly the same overall length and straight so it clears the shackle.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TNBfnOklmAI/AAAAAAAAB5M/XsdwcHdlVPo/s800/2010-09-05%2017.42.27.jpg

Next, front recovery. I bought this kit and got them installed.http://store.hicountryoffroad.com/Jeep-XJ-Tow-Hook-Bracket-with-D-Ring-Mounts-and-34-Shackles_p_5.html

Install was pretty straightforward. I left one bolt out that went through and existing hole that wasn't completely clear on my frame...it was late and I figured I could do it later and the other 5 bolts should keep it in place for the light work it might do in the meantime.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TNBf3MqCtuI/AAAAAAAAB5Q/ESkLls9Lng8/s800/2010-09-05%2017.42.52.jpg

Also bought a Uniden PRO-510XL on sale for < $30 shipped and picked up a stubby antenna at the local truckstop. Not the best range, but should be okay for most trail duty.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TNBgBlbF8qI/AAAAAAAAB5U/0PoHdR5-XwE/s800/2010-09-22%2018.14.55.jpg

Then not too much later I picked up a Smittybuilt XRC8. The wife felt more comfortable with me having a winch and okay'd the purchase, so who am I to complain. Decided to build a super simple bumper using a Wrangler winch plate and some scrap my Dad got from my Uncle. The core of which was a piece of 6" channel. He welded it all together and this is what we ended up with.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TNBgN1oIy9I/AAAAAAAAB5c/GCGe-GsgNXE/s800/2010-10-04%2012.34.16.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QFsKJezRHFc/TNBgZjblPLI/AAAAAAAAB5g/Nqla2fqBIFs/s800/2010-10-04%2012.34.33.jpg

Reused the shackles and mounting rings from the tow hook bracket set I bought, so that wasn't a total loss. We'll have to see if it all holds together...I'm hopeful though...

That's pretty much where I'm at. I've taken it out into the Ozarks a couple times now and it's performed like a champ.

Current todo list looks like this...

Track down highway overheating issue...
For above next step is tranny cooler/temp guage and new fluid. It got pretty warm(230ish) a few times this summer and I don't like what the recent fluid looks like already. So that my first step...
Rear bumper...or at least something better for recovery that what I have.
Still need to do something about the lower quarters and pinstrip. Too many Ozark pinstrips to really worry about paint at this point.


Eventual plans...going kind of a overlander direction.

Rear tire/high lift/jerry can carrier.
Storage box in rear with folding platform from seat backs to rear hatch for sleeping platform. Curl up if your over 5'10"...but should work for me...


We'll have to see where it all goes...

[bluedragon436]

Get you some more scrap metal and build one to match the front bumper... looks pretty good.. I wish I had some welding skills or knew someone near by that did and would do it for a decent price... I am actually hoping I won't have the same issue as far as the exhaust hitting the shackle when I do my longer shackles to upgrade my lift later down the road... If I do, I will just trim the tip a bit... as long as it passes inspection I'm happy.. less to catch up on trails and rocks too...