Rear ended help!

[beatupjeep]

Actually occured years ago..but now its preventing me from installing a trailer hitch so I need to fix it. Plus I'm sick of having to slam the liftgate shut in order for it to stay shut.

I dont think the damage is too horrible, I think the frame rails are okay, its just the rear crossmember thats pushed in.

The bumper has two mounts, each with four bolts. Only the outside 2 on each mount are flush with the rail flange. There is a gap for the other two so the bolts cant be installed. The bumper and mounts are new (well, junkyard new..undamaged anyway)

I have a porta power, come-along, and some trees. I suppose pulling it out with a chain on a tree, using a come along, might work? Has anyone done that? I'm planning on trying it tomorrow.

Although the sheet metal where the liftgate post is seems pretty "crimped"..its hard for me to imagine that can be pulled out with a come along..and if I cant pull that out then Im not sure how the cross member can be pulled out. Maybe Im thinking too fast and this is a very slow process?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150217_163044_zpsdovzvi2e.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150217_163044_zpsdovzvi2e.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150217_163033_zpstixtuv7f.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150217_163033_zpstixtuv7f.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150217_163028_zpslajew0mg.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150217_163028_zpslajew0mg.jpg.html)

[bluedragon436]

I'd say you should be good using a come along and a tree.. Repaired similar damage to a friends old car back in the day the same way.. wasn't perfect, but it def looked far better then it did to start with, which was similar to the damage you have right now...

[beatupjeep]

I'd say you should be good using a come along and a tree.. Repaired similar damage to a friends old car back in the day the same way.. wasn't perfect, but it def looked far better then it did to start with, which was similar to the damage you have right now...

Thanks good to hear!! BTW do you remember how thick the sheet metal you were fixing was? On the jeep its basically all 1/8" in the area of damage. Or maybe more like 3/32. But definitely thicker than the body panels. Is that what you were able to straighten? How did you keep the car from moving? I think even on wheel chocks it would slide across the pavement wouldnt it?

[4.3LXJ]

since you have a porta power, I suggest you drop the tank and start pushing. A little judicious hammer work will probably be needed too. Take it slow and easy and you can push it back

[beatupjeep]

since you have a porta power, I suggest you drop the tank and start pushing. A little judicious hammer work will probably be needed too. Take it slow and easy and you can push it back

I'd really like to do that..but I didnt see anywhere to put the porta power..is there a cross member between the rails under the fuel tank or somtin?

[4.3LXJ]

There is a substantial one that the shocks mount to

[beatupjeep]

There is a substantial one that the shocks mount to

excellent!! that may be the ticket then. is dropping the fuel tank a pain? can I do it without disconnecting ancient fuel lines? I have all the usual tools and what not, but Ive never done an XJ fuel tank

[beatupjeep]

I suppose this is the cross member you are referring too? Looks promising

http://industryfigure.com/berkeley/Jeep/tank/tank02.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

yes, should work fine

[beatupjeep]

progress so far

8000 lb come a long
some chain, bolts, angle iron and hooks
worst wheel chocks of all time (hollow thin plastic)

it seems to be doing some good...but its also pulling the jeep across the driveway..

I think the trick here may be putting enough power into each tug that most of it goes into pulling the metal and there isnt enough to slide the tires fast

so Im going to try:

-instead of just parking brake, I'll do something to engage the normal brakes..perhaps even with the engine running so they are power engaged (that or maybe I can get away with engine off and using residual vacuum for one pump)
-better wheel chocks
-lower tire pressure
-if I cant get the normal brakes engaged, then Ill put it in 4wd ultra low in the lowest gear and at least that will provide some braking on the front wheels


http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_123637_zpsp484gvww.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_123637_zpsp484gvww.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_123644_zpsrqkqktnm.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_123644_zpsrqkqktnm.jpg.html)

[beatupjeep]

okay I tried using the porta power to depress the main brake pedal and that worked much better..wheels dont roll anymore during the pull, suspension just seems to squat I think.

now I can try to get down to business..

[beatupjeep]

welp I worked on it for a couple hours..

I definitely moved it out..probably around 1/4 inch? Maybe 3/8"? Which is significant considering its probably only pushed in 1".

But I think I broke my $9.99 horrible fate come along..I'll have to take it apart to see whats the matter.

Im considering trying the fuel tank drop/porta power method now.

Im also a bit concerned about using the porta power on the brake pedal. It works for sure, but its hard to tell how much force you are putting out. I doubt the brake system is designed for a 1000 lb pedal press and the porta power can pump that out pretty easily. So its definitely something you want to do with caution.

What would really hit the spot is one of those little mini-vice things the pros use to grab sheet metal wherever they want to pull, and it has a ring or whatever on it. That would make this much more precise and put the force right where its needed too..I may try to make one or buy one.

I took before and after pics but the weatherstripping was in place in both and it makes it hard to see where the metal changed. I'll take some more pics once I really make some major progress though.

EDIT: I wonder if I could use a pair of big vice grips as the sheet metal grabber? And hook/weld a chain or ring onto it?

[4.3LXJ]

You can weld a stud on and use a slide hammer on it. Grind it off later

[beatupjeep]

You can weld a stud on and use a slide hammer on it. Grind it off later

good idea

[beatupjeep]

You can weld a stud on and use a slide hammer on it. Grind it off later

HF has a $99 stud welder + slide hammer combo that has good reviews.

But since I'm trying to cheap out on this I will probably just weld some short bar stock to it using TIG/MIG.

Also, I wonder if the standard studs used for body panels are strong enough for the thicker cross member stuff and a come along?

[beatupjeep]

I dropped the fuel tank and went to work with the porta power..

Definitely moved things around quite a bit. Its easy to see how a novice can cause more damage than they repair using one of these. Anything you push pushes and pulls everything attached to it. But I think I made positive progress overall. I can now bolt on the bumper with all 8 bolts, the trailer hitch fits, and I can move the liftgate post all the way back to stock position (It was previously an inch towards the rear, I had to slot its holes and move it so the liftgate would reach it)

But that area is still )(@#(@'ed. Its all bent and warped. The weather stripping is toast because of the lift gate hitting it at the wrong angle, and theres no way to put fresh weather stripping on because the flange is all messed up.

So I think at some point I'd like to put fresh sheet metal in. I think if I replaced about 1 foot from the rear edge of the floor pan, inwards, including the rear cross member, everything would be like new.

From what I can tell this is fairly straightfoward and I could probably fab up my own sheet metal pieces to do the job. I see people on youtube replacing huge sections of floor pan from rust. This is a little different because its impact damage, but I think the frame rails are fine and its just the cross member and rear area of the floor pan that need to go.

Any suggestions? I would imagine the procedure would be:

-remove fuel tank, carpeting, padding, bumper, trailer hitch outer bolts.
-drill out all spot welds on rear cross member
-drill out all spot welds on floor pan that are in area that will be removed
-cut out floor pan section thats damaged
-remove rear cross member
-fab up new cross member and floor pan out of sheet metal/thin wall tubing
-drill holes in new sheet metal to correspond to new spot weld locations (different than old weld locations cause they are just a hole now!)
-MIG weld it all in (I think my dinky HF 90A welder will actually work for this, if not I can use my big TIG welder)
-spray the whole deal with some kind of rust oleum/undercoating
-put everything back together!
-enjoy new weatherstripping and proper liftgate function!

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150307_141908_zpstntob5s2.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150307_141908_zpstntob5s2.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150307_141913_zpsckqj34ck.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150307_141913_zpsckqj34ck.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150307_141921_zpsoz41zjhf.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150307_141921_zpsoz41zjhf.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150307_142705_zpsgmldiury.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150307_142705_zpsgmldiury.jpg.html)

[bluedragon436]

Looking good... Almost like it is supposed too from the factory!!

[4.3LXJ]

It is a little hard for me to tell exactly what you need from your pics. But here is another shop tip for you. Get yourself some dollies, not the kind your daughter plays with. They are heavy pieces of metal that you put on the other side of sheet metal while you hit the front side. So let's say you have a crease in something. You need to push in on the crease to take care of a ridge in the metal. So you put the dolly on the back side and hit the front side with the hammer. Generally you don't use a BFH for this. You use a light hammer and go slow. The dolly keeps the back side from moving, (you never thought you would have a use for Newton's second law of thermodynamics). It is the mass of the dolly that is the trick. You work both sides of the metal until you get what you want. About ten minutes of practice will be worth more to you than a book I could write on it.

[beatupjeep]

It is a little hard for me to tell exactly what you need from your pics. But here is another shop tip for you. Get yourself some dollies, not the kind your daughter plays with. They are heavy pieces of metal that you put on the other side of sheet metal while you hit the front side. So let's say you have a crease in something. You need to push in on the crease to take care of a ridge in the metal. So you put the dolly on the back side and hit the front side with the hammer. Generally you don't use a BFH for this. You use a light hammer and go slow. The dolly keeps the back side from moving, (you never thought you would have a use for Newton's second law of thermodynamics). It is the mass of the dolly that is the trick. You work both sides of the metal until you get what you want. About ten minutes of practice will be worth more to you than a book I could write on it.

I was thinking about this..HF has a set with really good reviews:

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-body-and-fender-set-31277.html

The pictures of my jeep are pretty worthless at showing the damage.

The area that is bent is very strong, I can barely move it with the 4 ton porta pull maxed out. Can hand tools be used in this situation? Maybe since you are putting all the force in a small spot?

Its quite wrinkled and bent. If I could get in there with hand tools and straighten it all out that would be amazing..but I guess I need to know what situation they are appropriate for and what they arent. Maybe I'll take some better pics

[4.3LXJ]

Those will work. One trick is also to use them with the force applied. Once you deform the metal back into shape it will stay where you pushed it

[Carves]

I'm a defeatist ... and would say that is fooked .. :o

... so I'd be looking for a replacement section for someone to weld in.

Having said that ... if you have at it with hammer and dollies, it will probably come good.

Slow and steady tho - as 4.3LXJ mentioned ... as you have already noticed how the whole will react to just working on one point .. ;)

[Evolonednb13]

I also got rear ended and it dropped my whole rear end about an inch and i am using an 8000 come along a car jack and some bottle jacks along with a ball pean hammer and a sledge and its coming out nicely. I do have the advantage of having worked in a body shop before but not having the right tools is a challenge. Just take it slow i have been going at it for two weeks now and everything is starting to line up where it is supposed to be. Looks like yours is coming along great from what i can see. Next for me is dropping the gas tank and swinging everything to the passenger side about an inch and then welding on the frame stiffeners. This happened two days after i bought the jeep when someone pulled in front of me and slammed their brakes. I ended up on top of the Prius and a buddys race car that was on a trailer we were towing, broke the straps and rear ended the jeep. So after the rear i get to fix the front! So yeah your is not all that bad but i do know how hard it is but it can be done!!!