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View Full Version : Gauging interest in a VW TDI swap kit...



XJ92TDI
10-25-2009, 04:36 PM
Hey everyone...(obviously) I'm new here, but I'm just trying to gauge interest in parts to swap a VW TDI into a jeep. I've got a 92 XJ (hence the name) that I will be using to prototype the initial transmission adapter and motor mounts, but would like feedback from other jeepers as to what they are looking for. Obviously, it's a long list for a swap like this, so right now, I'd just like to get an idea of how many people would be interested, and for which models of Jeeps, which transmissions and the engines they would be replacing. I will also be posting on some other sites as well, so if you respond here, please don't respond to the others as well, I'd like to get an honest idea. I figure, there's nothing better than 4 wheeling, except being able to 'wheel more often because you are spending half as much money on fuel!

Thanks,
Sean

COSXJFAN
10-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Do you have the stats on the engine? I would love the torque a diesel offers for sure!! Is there enough HP for HWY speeds? Thanks!!

Mudderoy
10-27-2009, 11:59 AM
I didn't know what a VW TDI was. Had to look it up. I know I would like to know how to install one. Always fun to learn something new.

Voldemort
10-27-2009, 03:34 PM
I rather keep My 4.0. I would even rather have a stroked 4.0 than a V8!

96xj
10-27-2009, 03:41 PM
:dito: :dito: :nothingtoadd:

theguy
10-28-2009, 02:52 PM
I would like to here about this swap. I have a 61' wagon I have thought about doing this to.

Logans91XJ
10-30-2009, 03:05 AM
Honestly I would rather take a Diesel from a Liberty and not mess with VW

A diesel would be just so bad *** but the cost doesn't make it worth it at all

XJ92TDI
10-31-2009, 04:32 PM
Well, I've been looking at a couple options. One would be much cheaper than the other, but also lower powered. The older 1.9TDI is much cheaper, but in stock form, they only offer 90hp and 165ft-lb. With that being said, you could probably find one at a junkyard for $100-200 complete, spend say, another $500-800, and get a couple upgrades like a chip and injectors, and make 135-150hp and anywhere from 200-250ft-lb. Spend a little more and add a bigger turbo and you're easily at 4.0 power, way over 4.0 torque, and probably still be able to get 30+mpg. The other option is the brand new common rail 2.0PD TDI. It's much more expensive because it's brand new, but it's also 140hp and 235ft-lb stock, and a chip alone can boost that to close to 190-200hp and 300ft-lb (at least that's what some people are claiming on VW TDI forums, don't shoot the messenger).

Mudderoy
10-31-2009, 06:08 PM
Well, I've been looking at a couple options. One would be much cheaper than the other, but also lower powered. The older 1.9TDI is much cheaper, but in stock form, they only offer 90hp and 165ft-lb. With that being said, you could probably find one at a junkyard for $100-200 complete, spend say, another $500-800, and get a couple upgrades like a chip and injectors, and make 135-150hp and anywhere from 200-250ft-lb. Spend a little more and add a bigger turbo and you're easily at 4.0 power, way over 4.0 torque, and probably still be able to get 30+mpg. The other option is the brand new common rail 2.0PD TDI. It's much more expensive because it's brand new, but it's also 140hp and 235ft-lb stock, and a chip alone can boost that to close to 190-200hp and 300ft-lb (at least that's what some people are claiming on VW TDI forums, don't shoot the messenger).

Well I find it all very interesting. Thanks.

COSXJFAN
11-01-2009, 01:17 AM
Well, what's the next step then??

Logans91XJ
11-01-2009, 03:22 PM
What's the average cost for a Diesel Motor? Plus you need a Wiring harness and the CPU.

Where it seems to expensive

Cost of the Motor with wiring harness and CPU

Fitting to a Transfer Case

Wiring and everything else.

I mean your probably gonna drop like 5 Grand to do everything.

Thats a lot VS spending it at the pump and doing a few upgrades to the jeep

Headers, Exhaust, Throttle Body, Air Filter, Port and Polish Cyl Head.

Gearing is really where you need anything.

I know a lot of guys that are running Tubed Yotas running the 4cyl and turning 42" tires. All you really need is gearing and running Dual Transfer cases.
just my .02

Logans91XJ
11-02-2009, 04:38 AM
You might want to take a look at Pirate 4x4 there is a guy on there doing a diesel swap into a TJ!

Oh yeah scratch the VW thing and look into a Cummins 4BT!!

XJ92TDI
11-02-2009, 02:38 PM
I've been looking at many possibilities, VW 1.9 and 2.0TDI's, Mercedes OM diesels, Jeep Liberty CRD and the Cummins 4bt, also the Cummins 3.3. Each one has its own set of advantages and disadvantages. The Cummins 3.3 is probably the best fit, but hardest to find. I hadn't even heard of it until a couple weeks ago. Cummins 4bt is somewhat abundant, but weighs more than the stock 4.0 does. The CRD is also a great fit, but (at least for me) it's rare enough to find a non-wrecked CRD Liberty, let alone a complete engine or wrecked one. Mercedes diesels are dead reliable and would be well suited, except since they come from a Mercedes, the price tag is inflated. The VW 1.9 and early 2.0 TDI's are fairly plentiful, a lot of them have been sold, there are a lot of aftermarket support for them (if you see fit to add more power), and they will be more likely to be found in a pull-it-yourself type junkyard than any of the others, simply because there more overlooked and so common. I would be willing to bet that, with enough resourcefulness, you could probably do a 1.9 or even an early 2.0 TDI swap for less than $2500, engine, harness, etc. all included. Of course, if you want professionally built parts and not home-fab, it would cost more (relatively speaking), but it would also probably save a lot of time, and would also reduce the likeliness of weak points.

XJ92TDI
11-02-2009, 02:49 PM
And, another point I have to make is, with a tuner alone, you could get a 2.0 TDI to about 180hp and 310+ft-lb, and they would make those powers in a range almost identical to the stock 4.0. The Cummins 4bt would be much lower than that, which would require re-gearing, not to mention stiffer coil springs up front to handle the extra weight without the sport truck look with the rear up high. The TDI also has one other advantage: Since it's rated at 247ft-lb stock, unlike the 390+ft-lb (rough estimates based on various information) that the turbo, intercooled 4bt makes, it won't break transmissions or axles or any of those issues that COULD arise with the 4bt. I'm not saying that the trans or t-case is weak, but I don't know the real strength of them, or how much abuse they can take. A cummins 4bt would be interesting to swap into a Ram 1500 short bed/short cab though...

Logans91XJ
11-04-2009, 01:24 AM
Yeah thats not the problem really of tuning, its what are you going to mate it too for transmission and transfer case?

XJ92TDI
11-05-2009, 11:58 AM
Well, the goal is to fab an adapter plate to bolt the VW engine to the stock jeep trans. And FYI, the engine doesn't bolt to the transfer case, the transmission does:thumbsup:

Logans91XJ
11-07-2009, 01:00 PM
I know that LOL!!

but I think you gonna have a fun time doing all the wiring with that TDI where an older 4BT is really simple and requires very little wiring

XJ92TDI
11-08-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm not worried about wiring, that is relatively simple to me. The challenging part for me is the mechanical parts...fitting the trans to the engine, making sure a flexplate fits on the VW crank and inside the bellhousing, making sure I've got a torque converter that fits the trans and flexplate, fabricating motor mounts that don't require modification to the crossmember, finding an appropriate radiator and intercooler and radiator hoses, etc. Wires can be re-routed, re-pinned for the connectors, etc. which is pretty simple to me, because I would just rip out the jeep harness and adapt the VW harness to it.

XJ92TDI
01-18-2010, 12:40 AM
Ok, so I've been working on acquiring some of the parts needed, and working with my partner in this project, we decided we want to get some input from the other people who are interested, because they may not be as insane as we are. So, let's get some feedback! For those of you who are interested in this conversion, what are you looking for EXACTLY? What model, engine, trans would you want it for?
100% inclusive, including engine?
Complete swap kit without engine?
Just the basics (engine mounts, trans adapter) and you figure out everything else?
Wiring harness included, or just a schematic to wire it yourself?
Complete fuel system, or just instructions?
Would you want a complete intercooler, or figure that out yourself?
What would you be willing to pay for a complete kit sans engine?
What would you be willing to pay for the basic hard parts and instructions for the rest?
What would you be willing to pay for just the components you want?
I know everyone would want to say "I want it free" but let's try to be realistic. Find a TDI in a pull it yourself junkyard and you can get the complete engine for probably well under $1000, so figure on what else you would want.

rguignard
01-21-2010, 08:43 AM
look at this i found it on another site
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-Jeep-Cherokee-TURBO-DIESEL-4x4-5-Speed-RARE-grand_W0QQitemZ150398913292QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item2304794b0c

mud-dog27
03-13-2010, 01:43 AM
this should be an interesting project to watch but if the zuki and yota guys can get it figured out theres no reason some jeep guys shouldnt be able to get it done, but give the power the 4.0L already has i think the 1.9 swap would be a step backwards with the only benefit being the fuel milage so that leaves the 2.0L, and VWs arent too bad...i hated them with a passion but wound up buying one as a commuter for school but they are pretty easy to work on once you get your head around the assbackwards german engineering.

and i would love to find a OEM diesel XJ but i dont think they were to common in north america.

Rev D
03-20-2010, 11:05 AM
New here, but I've been over on 4btswaps.com for quite a while as well as quite a few other diesel sites so I'll give an opinion. That being the later TDI's would probably work pretty slick and have power enough, wiring might be a hassle just because so much interfaces through the computer (and this is a general opinion just not one of my own from many different diesel swappers). Earlier VW diesels will just not have much in the way of power.

The 4bt as mentioned has all the power you want to get from it since its basically the same motor Dodge uses in its diesel rams minus two cylinders. That said all the hop up stuff applies and 250 hp and 400+ ft/lbs of torque are easily achieved from its stock 130hp (some as low as 105) and 250 lbs of torque. That said its tall, very heavy and gearing needs to be addressed since its a low speed diesel with a redline at like 2500 rpm's (different governer springs are available for more RPM's but that can lead to disaster. They're also getting pricey due to the popularity of the swap into trucks and the fritolay-twinkie step vans they came from are drying up more all the time. Another caviat of those engines are they're very tall requiring body lifts and or other mods to get them under a non raised hoodline. The torque the 4 puts out can also raise havoc on smaller diffs and transfer cases just do to the abundance and also the major vibration they make.

The 3.3 cummins is great but pretty new and a new one is something like 4-5k. Slightly better weight wise, but just not all that available.

Mercedes 5cyl out of the 300's is not a bad swap and there is someone over on 4btswaps that is doing one using the ax15 with some form of adapters. The engines run forever but the cars are known to rust and they're quite available (the whole car) for 500-2000. Parts of course can be expensive depending on what it is, but most of the maintenance parts are a napa sorta thing and not super expensive. The turbocharged version is really the only way to go, they'll take a little bit of turning them up HP wise but will not like being pumped up very much.

There are others, the 4bd1 and 4bd2 out of the Isuzu box vans, they're very good, quite available not super expensive, but it has its issues, slightly heavy and of course requires adapters to bolt up to anything useful transmission wise (course nearly all the diesel swaps do). Nissan and Toyota have a few diesels that could work too each with there own brand of issues and or installation problems. Detroits, um, no... Very Very heavy two stroke diesels and they're really just two huge to even really consider. Some have put the 3-53' 3 cyl's (159 cu in 53x3 thats how they are given model names at Detroit) into like CJ's and they're darn near unstoppable but very loud, are known to leak quite a bit and just aren't very civilized for most installations.

Oh well, those are what I've found out about diesel swaps by reading 1000's of posts on them. They're advantage, much more torque per HP than gas engines, better economy and typically last longer. Most expensive to swap and usually require quite a bit more work than the average swap just due to size, intercoolers and other unique things diesels need (i.e. hydroboost brakes etc because theres no vacuum).

Sorry this post got so long, but its a big subject. Wish you well on the swap, I'll be interested to see how this shakes out.

Regards,

D.

bluedragon436
06-25-2011, 12:32 PM
Yes I know this is resurrecting an old thread.. but found this site the other day and thought it might help anyone thinking about looking into the VW 19 TDI swap.. would still have to come up with mounts.. but the adapters and wiring could be purchased thru this company.. Not to mention if you guys have any interest, even if not a real, full fledged interest, there is a link on this site where you can send an email showing interest in this setup for the XJ as they have been trying to gauge the interest on building a kit for the XJ.

jccatt
06-25-2011, 06:46 PM
We have a factory diesel XJ here but they are not popular. To be honest the 4.0l is the best off-road engine I have had. It has the power of petrol and the torque of a diesel. Well almost.

But I am still interested in your build, I'm like Muddy keen to read about anyone's mods.

:thumbsup:

KH96XJ
06-25-2011, 10:07 PM
Yes I know this is resurrecting an old thread.. but found this site the other day and thought it might help anyone thinking about looking into the VW 19 TDI swap.. would still have to come up with mounts.. but the adapters and wiring could be purchased thru this company.. Not to mention if you guys have any interest, even if not a real, full fledged interest, there is a link on this site where you can send an email showing interest in this setup for the XJ as they have been trying to gauge the interest on building a kit for the XJ.

What is the site?

bluedragon436
06-26-2011, 01:35 AM
You mean you actually want me to help you to the site?? LOL.. JK.. Thanks for mentioning that.. I don't know how I completely missed putting the link in, had it cut and ready to paste in, and forgot too.. oh well.. For anyone interested the link for the site with the VW 1.9L TDI Jeep (http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm) for the link to show interest in the XJ kit, even if not truly interested is found 1/4 way down the page here (http://www.hpamotorsport.com/TDI-YJ-AX5.htm):

vwfoolwhy
06-26-2011, 06:24 PM
Hows it going XJ92TDI

I have a 92 xj as well and have a 1.9 TDI that's almost ready to bolt in.

There is many companies out there that are making TDI swaps a lot more easy and cost efficient.

I was able to get my ECU Flashed HP Boost/security eliminated along with a engine management harness that's down to 5 wires to hook up and the motor is running.

As far as mating the engine to the trans this wasn't that hard. 1/2" Alum. adaptor plate bolted to the engine with the bell housing pattern on the plate.

I'm using an AX15 5speed along with the stock clutch and flywheel. The flywheel is machined to the TDI offset crank bolt pattern. Along with the 4.0 starter.

I haven't figured out What I'm going to do about the drive by wire for the throttle or the motor mounts, and of course cooling.