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sbspence
02-07-2014, 09:01 PM
Sent my 01 in for alignment today after 3" Rough Country lift install and the news came back that 3 out of the four ball joints are shot and it cannot be aligned. They quoted me a few bucks shy of a grand for four new Moog joints with lifetime warranty, r/r , alignment and tax.

Good Lord can that even be anywhere near right! ? I just bought this thing about 3weeks ago and have spent ALL my budget on the purchase, four tires, and the lift install. No one found the ball joints until now and my budget is blown. I'm just sick to my stomach about this. This Jeep is my DD so it has to be repaired sooner rather than later.

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have never jumped in and went with tires and lift before having it thoroughly checked out. I did, however have my long time mechanic check everything out and it looked great and drove well with the 215s on it. Now with the 245/75/16 tires and the lift it rides like a rack wagon on steel rims, is making a strange sound upon decel from the rear somewhere, and the steering feels heavy and darts around at higher speeds and on slippery roads. Groan. I would like to turn back time here and start over. :(

Any advice?


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jimmixj
02-07-2014, 09:12 PM
How much lift? From all you said I'm getting the impression that you have a driveshaft/pinion angle issue in rear (under decel the pinion tips down a few more degrees which causes the vibe) and a caster problem in front. Both are easily corrected. The first order of business, in my opinion, would be to find a new shop to handle your alignment. I'm in the auto repair business and there is a whole lot of sneaky sh#t that goes on in our field.

Firemanray
02-07-2014, 09:23 PM
That sounds high for an Xj. I've only paid a shop to do my Dodge 2500 4x4, it was $2500.00 for all ball joints, tie rods, track bar, one wheel bearing and alignment.

Definitely get a second opinion before forking over that kind of cash.

4.3LXJ
02-07-2014, 09:35 PM
Buy a ball joint press and do it yourself. It is not that hard

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sbspence
02-07-2014, 09:38 PM
4.3LXJ it's not always that easy for everyone...that used to be my pat answer when people would ask about how to repair their vehicles. Now I have far more empathy and understanding for individuals than to shoot back such an answer.

1) I have no shop or access to one

2) It has been below zero wind chills and snow on the ground for weeks now where I live.

3) The most important reason is that I I'm battling a chronic illness that does not allow me to take on such physical activity anymore.

I used to do this kind of work all the time for myself all the time so I have the knowledge and the desire but unfortunately I'm simply unable to anymore. It has been the single most difficult things to accept as a man and someone who was so formerly active and handy. Twenty years I've battled this disease now...

Not a sob story here just a gentle reminder to know circumstances before giving a glib off the cuff answer that may hurt someone without your meaning to.



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sbspence
02-07-2014, 10:00 PM
How much lift? From all you said I'm getting the impression that you have a driveshaft/pinion angle issue in rear (under decel the pinion tips down a few more degrees which causes the vibe) and a caster problem in front. Both are easily corrected. The first order of business, in my opinion, would be to find a new shop to handle your alignment. I'm in the auto repair business and there is a whole lot of sneaky sh#t that goes on in our field.




Sorry it's a 3" rough country coil/AAL lift I thought I put that. I wondered about the decel issue immediately after posting that. I have a 1" tfer case drop kit (that was the cheap part) now I need to find a way to get it installed. :) Wonder how long I can get by before it starts to eat at u joints and such.

I was thinking about the ball joints and they were touting the Moog joints as being a lot more $ but worth it because of the quality and the lifetime warranty. Well...I'm sure they won't pay for the labor(Moog) and that is the biggest part of the bill no? I'll check online for other prices on Balljoints and see how far out of line the pricing is. Also could you tell me what the shop manual says about time on this job? 01 Cherokee 4x4. THANKS!


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bulrid8
02-07-2014, 10:18 PM
I just did my 3". First, do a driveway alignment, get your toe in back right. That will help with some of the wandering. Next, throw a transfercase drop on it. That will help with your decel grind, until you can get the money for a SYE.

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4.3LXJ
02-07-2014, 11:00 PM
Sorry. I wasn't being glib. I realize your situation now. If you were anywhere around here I would pull i.to my shop and so it for.you. But I think a grand is far too much and you are getting ripped off. I would do some shopping around on that

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XJ Wheeler
02-07-2014, 11:07 PM
4.3LXJ it's not always that easy for everyone...that used to be my pat answer when people would ask about how to repair their vehicles. Now I have far more empathy and understanding for individuals than to shoot back such an answer.

1) I have no shop or access to one

2) It has been below zero wind chills and snow on the ground for weeks now where I live.

3) The most important reason is that I I'm battling a chronic illness that does not allow me to take on such physical activity anymore.

I used to do this kind of work all the time for myself all the time so I have the knowledge and the desire but unfortunately I'm simply unable to anymore. It has been the single most difficult things to accept as a man and someone who was so formerly active and handy. Twenty years I've battled this disease now...

Not a sob story here just a gentle reminder to know circumstances before giving a glib off the cuff answer that may hurt someone without your meaning to.



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I've been on here for more than two years and have seen and done a lot of interaction on here and i can tell you Steves comment was purely sincere.

First i always have the mechanic show me the problem, and bad ball joints are apparent enough to see. Tells you a lot about the guy, what he does next.

Also, might be worth a shot to find out if you can bring your own parts. Find em cheaper elsewhere.

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sbspence
02-07-2014, 11:16 PM
Thanks guys!. Didn't mean to be gun-shy, or cone across as a Jerk just a knee jerk reaction my apologies....just comes with territory.

Looking at the web this seems WAY overpriced the parts appear to be between 13$-$40 a piece with a 3-3.5 hour rate for all four. Looks like a guy should replace the axle joints as well while in there and do an alignment. ?? Anything I'm missing? The rig has 153,000 and looks to be original parts on suspension except what I just had installed.

As an aside unless this kit loosens up after some miles I'm highly disappointed in the Rough Country kit. Rough is an appropriate name! <yikes> there are squeeks and rattles everywhere in the poor thing now with the filling rattling ride. Wish I would've stayed stock for now and went a different route with the build. Oh well spilled milk. Now to "soften" up my mistake best I can. ;).


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bulrid8
02-08-2014, 12:23 AM
Did you get the series II kit? If you didn't get the LCAS it will ride rougher. Mine is ten times better ride then stock.

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tommy guns
02-08-2014, 12:30 AM
My Jeep has the same lift and I can run 85 mph smoothly.I recommend finding a high pinion dana 30 at a junkyard and have that installed.

XJ Wheeler
02-08-2014, 12:37 AM
Thanks guys!. Didn't mean to be gun-shy, or cone across as a Jerk just a knee jerk reaction my apologies....just comes with territory.

Looking at the web this seems WAY overpriced the parts appear to be between 13$-$40 a piece with a 3-3.5 hour rate for all four. Looks like a guy should replace the axle joints as well while in there and do an alignment. ?? Anything I'm missing? The rig has 153,000 and looks to be original parts on suspension except what I just had installed.

As an aside unless this kit loosens up after some miles I'm highly disappointed in the Rough Country kit. Rough is an appropriate name! <yikes> there are squeeks and rattles everywhere in the poor thing now with the filling rattling ride. Wish I would've stayed stock for now and went a different route with the build. Oh well spilled milk. Now to "soften" up my mistake best I can. ;).


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No worries man, we are all about respect so you don't have to worry about that "if you don't know everything in the entire world you're an idiot" mentality here.

The u-joints wouldn't be a bad idea, and are relatively cheap since you'll have most of the work done already anyways. But by the sound of it i would search for a new place to get the work done. A thought, try (if you have one nearby) a local jeep club to see if they are having a wrenching day any time soon.

The shocks could be to blame with the rough ride. Did you get new ones with the lift?

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Mudderoy
02-08-2014, 01:06 AM
Sent my 01 in for alignment today after 3" Rough Country lift install and the news came back that 3 out of the four ball joints are shot and it cannot be aligned. They quoted me a few bucks shy of a grand for four new Moog joints with lifetime warranty, r/r , alignment and tax.

Good Lord can that even be anywhere near right! ? I just bought this thing about 3weeks ago and have spent ALL my budget on the purchase, four tires, and the lift install. No one found the ball joints until now and my budget is blown. I'm just sick to my stomach about this. This Jeep is my DD so it has to be repaired sooner rather than later.

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have never jumped in and went with tires and lift before having it thoroughly checked out. I did, however have my long time mechanic check everything out and it looked great and drove well with the 215s on it. Now with the 245/75/16 tires and the lift it rides like a rack wagon on steel rims, is making a strange sound upon decel from the rear somewhere, and the steering feels heavy and darts around at higher speeds and on slippery roads. Groan. I would like to turn back time here and start over. :(

Any advice?


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http://xjtalk.com/images/special/98jeepxjfrontend.jpg

I replaced the drag link, the two ball joints on the tie rod for about $200 in parts and a couple of hours of my time. A Moog drag link from Amazon is about $100. The Moog TRE (tie rod ends) 3 of them 1 goes on the drag link the other 2 go on the tie rod were about $40 each.

So assuming they aren't going cheap on the replacement parts that's $800 in labor.

Are those the ball joints they are saying need to be replaced?

Do you have death wobble?

jimmixj
02-08-2014, 06:50 AM
Rockauto has your ball joints for $100 for all four. Labor here is at about 4 hours for the whole job and alignment runs 50 to 80 depending on where you go. Assuming a labor rate of $100 per FLH and a parts markup of 100% that would be between 7 and 800 for the job. To compare, I did the same job a few months back for a customer and the total bill was $380 less alignment. My point is this; much like a doctor, a second opinion can often save a lot of grief. BTW, that customer had one joint with a small amount of wear and had the other 3 changed as PM. There are many shops, get to know a few in your area then find one you trust. A final thought; I've been doing auto repair for over 35 years and have never seen all 4 joints bad at one time, but I have seen lots of guys call good parts bad.

bluedragon436
02-08-2014, 07:01 AM
I would say get a second opinion for sure, and get a quote from them for the work if they even say it is in fact needed.. Another option I would say is look around the net and find some local Jeep clubs/forums, and one you can find places that hey recommend going to, if not maybe even find someone on those sites that'll hook you up for a darn decent deal or a wrenching weekend where you might be able to join in and you can maybe help do something to help others that you are able to do with your illness... that way it is a win/win situation for you and them...

nickyg
02-08-2014, 09:35 AM
That price seems a bit high to me too. Other options would be to take it to a vocational school that teaches auto repair. (I had a car painted at one once for the price of materials) or you could mentor/supervise a younger more able family member or acquaintance.
Here' a video I used when I changed mine. just to give you an idea of whats involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf77O90BwKc

Joliet Johnny
02-08-2014, 09:50 AM
You might walk into a local auto parts store and see if someone there can give you a phone number of a local grease monkey. When I worked at Autozone one of my fellow employees worked there just for the employee discount and the ability to find people who needed work done on their vehicles. Another option is to look to a local 4X4 club for the labor. For the alignment call around, when I worked at Saturn we were the cheapest in town and our work came with a guarantee backed up by Generic Motors. For a driveway guy I'd offer $25hr book time for the first job and tell them if I'm happy you get $50hr book time next service.

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4.3LXJ
02-08-2014, 09:51 AM
Yes, Rough Country tends to ride rough. No pun intended. The first thing you can do is lower your tire pressure a bit. That is a good idea anyway in winter conditions. With stock size tires I used to run 28 psi front and 25 psi rear. This won't hurt radials and they will get better traction on slick surfaces. The next thing involves shocks. Rough Country and Rancho 5000 shocks ride rough due to the valving. Run them for now and then go with something like Pro Comp or Bilstein when you can afford them.

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sbspence
02-08-2014, 01:00 PM
There aren't any local 4wd clubs tact I know of this is kind of a wasteland for that and always has been. We're just smack dab in the middle of prairie as far as the eye can see, and mostly farm fields. The closest organized club I can find is in Pittsfield, Il about a 2 hour drive, St Louis is about a 2hr drive, the Chicago Suburbs are about 3, and Attica, In is about 2. So yeah smack dab in the middle of nowhere. :). I have a trusted mechanic in going to on Monday and since the car lot I bought this off of less than a mo ago is owned by a "friend" he's going to help with the cost even though I bought it "as is" ... So panic mode is off now. Thanks for all the great advice it's helped me to center and focus. The dangerously frigid weather hovering over us the past few weeks doesn't help matters otherwise I'd tackle it in the drive with my boys and I'd supervise. :). Not possible when wind chills are below zero. The very frustrating part is knowing I'll have to pay for labor that I could do and that takes away from other Jeep money! ;)

No death wobble, steering is "Darty" like toe in is off one way or the other. It almost feels like the front end is not turning freely so it needs to be on a lift to see if indeed something in front axle, brakes are dragging, binding. The rear end feels light and the front end heavy when I'm driving it and unfortunately I haven't owned it long enough to know its characteristics. I'm coming from an F-150 2wd reg can long bed so night and day there. I've owned three TJS in the past buts that was ten yrs ago when they were basically new and well I've forgotten a LOT since then.

I'll keep y'all posted in what I find out and thanks for being a sounding board out there!
Spence<><


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sbspence
02-14-2014, 04:36 PM
Ok I got it up on lift to look it over or under as the case may be. The lower driver side Balljoint moves up and down about 1/2" or so when squeezed with lg water pump pliers, the upper about 1/4" and the passenger side nothing! I'm going to invest in a couple and have them for when I plan on tackling the job (with help) but my trusted mechanic said they were t really bad enough to worry about right now.

It's still a little spooky on snowy roads when in 4wd. It likes to wander a lot with a lot of correction needed. There is play in the steering box it seems but all the tie rod ends and such seem tight.
It's an 01 with 153k and 3" rough country coils(mistake) in front and an AAL in back(2nd mistake) along with a 1" tfer case drop. I'm running new Goodyear Authority 245/75/16 in the stock 16" alloy rims. Idk the rims name on the XJs I'm an old TJ guy. ;).


Is this just something to live with in the XJ or where should I start looking steering wise to correct this issue.

As an aside Rough Country is the PERFECT name for this lift because that's exactly what it feels like on all but the smoothest roads! I'm developing new interior rattles every day! Which another pet peeve for another day. Someday OME 2" Springs will replace my mistake but for now! 😁


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4.3LXJ
02-14-2014, 05:14 PM
You say the driver side ball joint moves 1/4". Did I read that right?

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sbspence
02-14-2014, 08:11 PM
My 98 had some bad vibes after a 3inch lift (Rustys AAL kit), late model XJs are more prone to it. The vibes weren't constant though, at some random times going city speeds I thought my jeep was going to fall apart. Dropping the t-case 1 inch solved it.

If it was me I would just save the trouble, lift 3 inches and drop the t-case 1 inch.

I just got out from behind the wheel and is it just plain spooky to drive on slick roads. I've been driving for over thirty years and am not a novice so I can handle it but it's a two handed white knuckle drive. There's a lot of play in the steering especially when in 4by.

4.3LXJ
02-14-2014, 08:13 PM
That is quite a bit really. Are you up for a "driveway alignment"?

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sbspence
02-14-2014, 08:15 PM
Well we eye balled it the toe isn't noticeable off by simple tape measure. Whatcha thinking?


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4.3LXJ
02-14-2014, 09:23 PM
You use a tape measure on the front and back of the tire. Front measurement should be about 1/8" less

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sbspence
02-14-2014, 09:55 PM
Ok. I'll double check it when I can get it inside out of the snow and feel a little better. Thx!


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Hopkins
02-17-2014, 09:39 PM
I have the same lift as you sbspence, and I have to say I do not have the same impressions about ride quality as you do. However I did opt for new lower control arms and the premium shocks. I would say the ride is similar to stock, maybe just slightly rougher. I just wanted to put this out there so that you don't go looking to replace the whole lift for improved ride quality. Some different shocks might help to bring about a smoother ride, and if your looking for control arms for a smooth ride I would check out metal cloak's TJ arms. I am also adding rear shackle relocation brackets in the next week or 2 for a little extra lift in the rear, but it should also bring about a smoother ride.

sbspence
02-18-2014, 02:02 PM
Thank that makes me feel a bit better. ! I think I may have some worn parts here and there up front causing the harshness or maybe it's the stock track bars but it just absolutely slams into potholes and such with little to no give. I'm going t replace the driver side ball joints and get it aligned and go from there. I'm not sure which shocks came with with my rough country kit? They are silver but no stickers or markings that I can see.

There is a rattle right under my feet when on these rough snow/ice warshboard type roads...track bar bushings? The ball joints? Idk. I do know it needs an exhaust hangar/isolater for the rearmost rubber hanger which causes one of my rattles at idle and when the drive train moves around much. It rattles at the rear and under the console.

I also wonder about the E load rated tires. The one thing I DO know is I am not enjoying driving it right now and that is the first time I've ever said that about any of my rigs...and that is over 30years worth of driving!


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4.3LXJ
02-18-2014, 02:21 PM
Those tires will make any XJ rattle. Try lowering the air pressure. 25 psi would be OK with those and give you better traction in snow

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sbspence
02-18-2014, 07:32 PM
Thanks brother! I'll try that for now. These tires grip like gangbusters in the snow BUT I might start tire shopping again I only bought these because they were close in size to what I wanted and 16ers aren't that plentiful in smaller sizes. I really wanted 235/75/15 Goodyear Wrangler Radials from Walmart. I've run those on three different Jeeps and have been pretty happy with them all around and they're cheap now! I DO like the look of my stock rims but maybe I can find some 15x7 or 15x8 stock Jeep rims. I'm partial to the Canyons But beggars can't always be choosers. :).


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