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View Full Version : Political discussion originally from the random picture thread



BlueXJ
09-09-2009, 11:34 AM
From Iran!!!!

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll187/90BlueXJ/FlagBurning.jpg

kmanxj
09-09-2009, 06:00 PM
From Iran!!!!

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll187/90BlueXJ/FlagBurning.jpg

that makes me want to knock somebody out!!!!!!:mad0090:

ol"blue
09-10-2009, 07:53 AM
http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo269/Arhandirath/nukeem.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/smkeater55/politics_1/nukeiran.jpg

whowey
09-13-2009, 01:27 PM
From Iran!!!!

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll187/90BlueXJ/FlagBurning.jpg


that makes me want to knock somebody out!!!!!!:mad0090:


http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo269/Arhandirath/nukeem.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/smkeater55/politics_1/nukeiran.jpg

So what you three are saying is that US citizens have the right to political expression.. but Iranians or other nationalities shouldn't have the same right?? Or should they just not be able to protest their dislike of US policy??

It's just a stupid piece of cloth.... Heck.. 90% of them aren't even made in the US any longer. The day our nation becomes nothing more than a cloth flag, we have already lost what the founding fathers helped create.

Voldemort
09-13-2009, 02:43 PM
So what you three are saying is that US citizens have the right to political expression.. but Iranians or other nationalities shouldn't have the same right?? Or should they just not be able to protest their dislike of US policy??

It's just a stupid piece of cloth.... Heck.. 90% of them aren't even made in the US any longer. The day our nation becomes nothing more than a cloth flag, we have already lost what the founding fathers helped create.

Did you just call the Flag that represents what our troops have and still give their lives for a stupid piece of cloth? Who cares what it is physically made of or were the put it together. This piece of cloth is what I and just about every American has Pledged their Allegiance.
"I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
That piece of cloth represent who and what we are and if you are an American than you need to get your *** to a library or go talk to some veterans about what that "stupid piece of cloth" means. Here is a story for you.
A Lesson For Americans by Mike Dalka

My Grandfather was a glider infantryman in WWII, an adviser in Korea, and lost one of his sons, my uncle Gary Edwards, in Vietnam. I worked in his auto repair station during high school and he flew his flag in front daily. One day while I was sweeping the oil dry out of the bays it began to sprinkle rain. He told me to go get the flag and I said "gimme a second." He said, "It is raining, go get the flag NOW." Well I popped off my mouth about how he should cool it, it isn't going to melt or some such typical teenage comment.

My grandfather is the toughest man I've ever met. He explained once that he thought basic training was some sort of country club during WWII, because he was used to hard work anyway, and at home he didn't have indoor toilets or hot running water! And when I said whatever it was that I said to him, he turned deep crimson and I thought, "God save me, he's going to kill me for talking back." Instead tears welled up in his eyes and he squeaked out "You don't understand what this family has paid for the right to fly that flag." Then he turned his back on me and went out and got the flag. I just stood there feeling like the smallest person to ever live. Those words cut me so deep. I wish the entire country could have heard them.

I hope that this Nation might yet have enough people who understand the cost of liberty to turn things around.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/natlib/afc2001001/tifs/3c32798/3c32798v.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/WW2_Iwo_Jima_flag_raising.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/3680437992_da724e40da_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2524/3680457904_fa3a57f50f.jpg
http://www.september11news.com/AAPentagonFlagAftermathSept13WPost.jpg

BlueXJ
09-13-2009, 02:53 PM
WHOWEY you are not a veteran. That is very obvious to me. Many of us fought and some died for that symbol of our country. If you don't respect it enough to have made that statement then you don't respect our soldiers and sailors either. That means you don't respect AMERICA either.
Read ol'blues signature and do exactly what it says, before some veteran allows you the privilege to join his fallen comrades.

Mudderoy
09-13-2009, 05:34 PM
So what you three are saying is that US citizens have the right to political expression.. but Iranians or other nationalities shouldn't have the same right?? Or should they just not be able to protest their dislike of US policy??

It's just a stupid piece of cloth.... Heck.. 90% of them aren't even made in the US any longer. The day our nation becomes nothing more than a cloth flag, we have already lost what the founding fathers helped create.

My wife gives me a hard time. She'll ask me why I have the right to critize someone that "does" something (this usually has to do with driving), then later I do the same thing? I tell her because it is ME doing it, which of course makes it different. She hates arguing with me. :smiley-laughing021:

That's kind of the same thing here. Logically what you say makes sense, however when they burn a flag, our flag, they are insulting us. They are attacking one of our symbols of this country. When we, Americans, allow this to go unnoticed, or understood as a freedom of expression, we show our enemies that we do not have the will to stand and defend our country.

Audio222
09-13-2009, 08:33 PM
So what you three are saying is that US citizens have the right to political expression.. but Iranians or other nationalities shouldn't have the same right?? Or should they just not be able to protest their dislike of US policy??

It's just a stupid piece of cloth.... Heck.. 90% of them aren't even made in the US any longer. The day our nation becomes nothing more than a cloth flag, we have already lost what the founding fathers helped create.

You must be from Ashland, OR.:lame:

4.3LXJ
09-13-2009, 09:33 PM
So what you three are saying is that US citizens have the right to political expression.. but Iranians or other nationalities shouldn't have the same right?? Or should they just not be able to protest their dislike of US policy??

It's just a stupid piece of cloth.... Heck.. 90% of them aren't even made in the US any longer. The day our nation becomes nothing more than a cloth flag, we have already lost what the founding fathers helped create.

Burning our flag is not a statement of disagreement. It is a statement of disrespect. There is a whole lot of difference. It is the same as shoving a pork chop in the mouth of an Islamic fundamentalist. I may disagree with Islamic policy, but I don't disrespect them.

whowey
09-13-2009, 11:03 PM
WHOWEY you are not a veteran. That is very obvious to me. Many of us fought and some died for that symbol of our country. If you don't respect it enough to have made that statement then you don't respect our soldiers and sailors either. That means you don't respect AMERICA either.
Read ol'blues signature and do exactly what it says, before some veteran allows you the privilege to join his fallen comrades.

Blue.. I have a ton of respect for you.. but realistically you have no idea on whether I have served or not... Some people enjoyed/liked/felt honored for being able to serve. Not everyone leaves the service with the same feelings.

People from that region of the world have a specific set of reasons for hating our policies. For better or worse they have been unduely subjected to the hand of the US foreign policy more times than they really should have been. If burning a flag and hurling insults is how they express their displeasure, it certainly beats any more Americans coming home to Dover....

I grew up with a parent who went to fight a war.. not one for the freedom of the US people.. but one for a failed foreign policy... My own generation fought another conflict because of a failed foreign policy and now yet another generation has the same responsibility. Bear the consequences of another war of policy.

whowey
09-13-2009, 11:08 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/3680437992_da724e40da_o.jpg


The 50-star American flag are improperly displayed in this picture.

No other flag is to be displayed at the same height or higher than the American flag. This includes older US flags....

2000XJ
09-13-2009, 11:56 PM
I thought that the only other flag allowed to be flown at the same height as the US flag was the State flag of Texas. Am I wrong? I could've sworn I read that when I visited San Antonio a few years ago.

Melissa
09-14-2009, 12:07 AM
I thought that the only other flag allowed to be flown at the same height as the US flag was the State flag of Texas. Am I wrong? I could've sworn I read that when I visited San Antonio a few years ago.

This is just what I read

Yes. This is due to the fact that Texas was once its own independent nation prior to joining the United Sates. Texas retains this right in their state constitution along with the ability to split into 5 separate states should the citizens ever decide to do so.

Voldemort
09-14-2009, 12:21 AM
I do not know but I was not paying attention to the heights of the flags but the pride of the men flying them.

Melissa
09-14-2009, 12:49 AM
Well since we have been talking about the American flag, I found this and thought it was interesting

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=1537470&forumid=8&pagenumber=1

60driver
09-14-2009, 09:30 AM
As a current Active Duty Soldier, I take great pride in serving my country and I am extremely offended by the images of a burning U.S. flag posted here. I salute the Flag nearly everyday and I am truly proud of all of those on this forum who have stood up and declared their allegiance to our great nation and the flag that symbolizes all that our nation has stood for.

To Whowey, choose your battles and choose what you decide to point out as right and wrong. If you are an American, you should be offended at the sight of our flag burning. The U.S. Flag is considered a living thing, and for it to be burned should be looked at as though it were an American citizen being burned against their will. How would you feel about that? Is that just someone showing their dislike of America?

Mudderoy
09-14-2009, 10:46 AM
I think it's pretty clear how most of us think here on this board. In Whowey's defense it isn't easy to speak what you believe, in what could be a hostel environment.

I applaud Whowey for feeling comfortable enough to share his opinion, and we ALL should keep in mind that 60driver and our other soldiers are there to help keep us in a position that we CAN speak our minds.

:patriot: :rant:

BlueXJ
09-14-2009, 03:00 PM
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/pipepreston/Blank%20Tags/USflag.gif
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/pipepreston/Blank%20Tags/USflag.gif
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/pipepreston/Blank%20Tags/USflag.gif
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/pipepreston/Blank%20Tags/USflag.gif

Mudderoy
09-14-2009, 03:26 PM
You may have gathered that the energetic political discussion that began in the "Random Picture" thread has given rise to not only it's own thread, but it's own section!

Okay with that out of the way, carry on... :popcorn:

whowey
09-14-2009, 05:57 PM
While I find it interesting the only two posts removed from this discussion were both mine.... I am fairly confident this was a mistake and not an attempt to steer the discussion in any certain direction....


BlueXJ... I have alot of respect for you and the things you have done in your life. But to be honest, you have no idea on whether I have served in the armed services. Just because I don't believe burning one flag over another is an acceptable act says nothing to that fact. Not everyone that has ever served feels the same way about that time they spent in service or the nation after that service. I keep my personal experiences just that...

A cut out picture of the American flag being burned is unacceptable... but a stylized Iranian flag super-imposed with a mushroom cloud is acceptable... How is that not a double standard?? If we are to expect another nationality to respect our flag as our indentity, we absolutely need to do the same...

whowey
09-14-2009, 06:01 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/3680437992_da724e40da_o.jpg


Thank you for posting a picture of the Shiners improperly displaying the US flag.

This is another form of disrespect towards the flag.
So why is this considered acceptable behavior???

Melissa
09-14-2009, 06:20 PM
Thank you for posting a picture of the Shiners improperly displaying the US flag.

This is another form of disrespect towards the flag.
So why is this considered acceptable behavior???

I agree with you on this one whowey, this is a disrespectful picture of flag etiquette


I have great respect for our flag and for those who protect it and all of us, there is nothing better tham seeing our US flag flying high.

Audio222
09-14-2009, 07:28 PM
When I was in the Navy I was a member of the oldest Honor Guard in the US. The Mare Island Drill Team and Honor Guard, it was started some time in the 1800's. The American flag is always guarder by a rifleman when unferaled. The joke was always to try and get away from rifleman because the Flag can never be unguarded. Why is this? Well its because when the US Flag is lowered it means surrender. Remember a long time ago there was no field radios only signals, when the soldiers were fighting and the flag was still waving it meant to keep fighting, but when the flag was lowered it meant for all soldiers to surrender. That is why we burned any Ensign that touched the ground, it was tainted with surrender because it was lowered to the ground. To display the US flag incorrectly is not disrespectful its just a mistake, but to PURPOSEFULLY display the US Flag incorrectly IS disrespectful. The US Flag is a symbol of what our country stands for, why else would anyone want to burn or stomp on it? Its done because if you can't attack the U.S. then attack what it stands for, the U.S. Stars and Stripes, probably the most recognized symbol in the world. It is just a piece of cloth but it represents everything we stand for and we keep fighting when we can still see it even if its being burned on a page at a Jeep website.

"And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof thro' the night THAT OUR FLAG WAS STILL THERE".

That means we never gave up and never quit. May it always be there because if its not then we've surrendered.

Dwyane
USN Veteran

Mudderoy
09-14-2009, 11:00 PM
While I find it interesting the only two posts removed from this discussion were both mine.... I am fairly confident this was a mistake and not an attempt to steer the discussion in any certain direction....


BlueXJ... I have alot of respect for you and the things you have done in your life. But to be honest, you have no idea on whether I have served in the armed services. Just because I don't believe burning one flag over another is an acceptable act says nothing to that fact. Not everyone that has ever served feels the same way about that time they spent in service or the nation after that service. I keep my personal experiences just that...

A cut out picture of the American flag being burned is unacceptable... but a stylized Iranian flag super-imposed with a mushroom cloud is acceptable... How is that not a double standard?? If we are to expect another nationality to respect our flag as our indentity, we absolutely need to do the same...

Crap! What is missing!?!?! Did you look on page 1? Is it still in the old thread? I didn't think I lost anything.

Ok I think I found them. I had moved everything to Firehawk's "Political Soapbox" but it looked funny since it was a mix so I created the special section "Politics and Religion" and moved it here. Looks like I missed 6 posts. Should be back to normal now.

whowey
09-17-2009, 07:11 PM
Don't worry... I haven't abandoned what is devolping into a very interesting discussion...

This has not been a decent week at all. I am currently dealing with the sudden death of a longtime very close friend and another which was the brother of a wheeling buddy. Also my wife lost an aunt this week to a drug overdose.

At this moment.. spirited politcal debate really doesn't hold my mind.

Mudderoy
09-17-2009, 07:14 PM
Don't worry... I haven't abandoned what is devolping into a very interesting discussion...

This has not been a decent week at all. I am currently dealing with the sudden death of a longtime very close friend and another which was the brother of a wheeling buddy. Also my wife lost an aunt this week to a drug overdose.

At this moment.. spirited politcal debate really doesn't hold my mind.

Very sorry you and your wife are going through this. We'll be here when you are feeling more like your old self.

Melissa
09-17-2009, 09:08 PM
Very sorry too about both your losses

BlueXJ
09-17-2009, 10:08 PM
Bill if I can do anything for either you or your wife then don't hesitate to let me know. So sorry for your multiple losses.

4.3LXJ
09-17-2009, 11:27 PM
I am sorry for your loss.

Mudderoy
09-18-2009, 09:16 AM
Oh and hurry and cheer up so we can get back to our discussion you commie pinko! :rotfl2: :patriot:

ol"blue
09-18-2009, 09:00 PM
I'm sorry you're going through difficult times whowey.
Hopefully I'll be around when you feel like a little give 'n take.
Later Dude.http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/DLHTURBO/beerchug.gif

whowey
09-23-2009, 09:31 PM
When I was in the Navy I was a member of the oldest Honor Guard in the US. The Mare Island Drill Team and Honor Guard, it was started some time in the 1800's. The American flag is always guarder by a rifleman when unferaled. The joke was always to try and get away from rifleman because the Flag can never be unguarded. Why is this? Well its because when the US Flag is lowered it means surrender. Remember a long time ago there was no field radios only signals, when the soldiers were fighting and the flag was still waving it meant to keep fighting, but when the flag was lowered it meant for all soldiers to surrender. That is why we burned any Ensign that touched the ground, it was tainted with surrender because it was lowered to the ground. To display the US flag incorrectly is not disrespectful its just a mistake, but to PURPOSEFULLY display the US Flag incorrectly IS disrespectful. The US Flag is a symbol of what our country stands for, why else would anyone want to burn or stomp on it? Its done because if you can't attack the U.S. then attack what it stands for, the U.S. Stars and Stripes, probably the most recognized symbol in the world. It is just a piece of cloth but it represents everything we stand for and we keep fighting when we can still see it even if its being burned on a page at a Jeep website.

"And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof thro' the night THAT OUR FLAG WAS STILL THERE".

That means we never gave up and never quit. May it always be there because if its not then we've surrendered.

Dwyane
USN Veteran

Thanks for your service....


But there is evidence in the picture that the mis-display of the US flag was done on purpose. The Shriners club is from New Mexico and the inclusion of the Mexican flag in the parade display leads one to believe they did it to not insult the audience of the display. Now even though they did not posses any INTENT to disrespect the US flag.. they still did.

whowey
09-23-2009, 09:35 PM
Oh and hurry and cheer up so we can get back to our discussion you commie pinko! :rotfl2: :patriot:



Thank you everyone for you thoughts and sympathies.....


And I would most likely further away from Communist beliefs than most of the forum is... Just because I tend to believe we have to bear a cost for our past bad behavior....

Audio222
09-23-2009, 09:44 PM
Thanks for your service....


But there is evidence in the picture that the mis-display of the US flag was done on purpose. The Shriners club is from New Mexico and the inclusion of the Mexican flag in the parade display leads one to believe they did it to not insult the audience of the display. Now even though they did not posses any INTENT to disrespect the US flag.. they still did.

Actually on many occasions we display the flag of other countries. Where is the disrespect?

Voldemort
09-23-2009, 11:58 PM
I do not know but I was not paying attention to the heights of the flags but the pride of the men flying them.

There is a huge difference in making a Height error while proudly showing the flag and BURNING IT OR CALLING IT A MEANINGLESS PIECE OF CLOTH!:thumbdown:

4.3LXJ
09-24-2009, 10:01 AM
There is a huge difference in making a Height error while proudly showing the flag and BURNING IT OR CALLING IT A MEANINGLESS PIECE OF CLOTH!:thumbdown:

Yup, a little uncommon common sense here.

Mudderoy
09-24-2009, 10:16 AM
The INTENT is what is important to me.

The flag is just a piece of cloth, and each of us is what $5 worth of chemicals and water. It really isn't about what something is made of it is the importance that you put on the whole thing that makes the difference.

96xj
09-24-2009, 12:16 PM
http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu147/96xj/ya.jpg


http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu147/96xj/flag.jpg

Audio222
09-24-2009, 01:00 PM
There is a huge difference in making a Height error while proudly showing the flag and BURNING IT OR CALLING IT A MEANINGLESS PIECE OF CLOTH!:thumbdown:

The is the best answer so far.

A mistake is a mistake is a mistake, run over my foot on accident and we will laugh about it, do it on purpose and I'm gonna shove somebody's head up there a**.