CEL Codes.

[Howler_GT]

I have a test for ya guys/gals. Lets see if any can diagnose the problem...

I met up with Mrs Howler for our usual Fri afternoon coffee (We get out of work at the same time on Fri)

She tells me the CEL is on.
I ask if its "running" okay.
Its running okay but it is quite HOT (over 210*) And she says the BATT gauge is reading low.

I get in and start it up. Starts fine. 3 sec. later CEL comes on. And BATT gauge starts to drop.
But its running smoothly.

XJ INFO: 1991 Laredo 4.0L AUTO 169,000mi.

Upon getting home, I pull the codes.

1st- CODE 12: Battery disconnected.
2nd- CODE 22: Coolant Sensor circuit low voltage.
3rd- CODE 41: ALT field circuit.

Took BATT and ALT out and had them tested. BOTH passed.

I fixed the problem.
Lets see if someone can diagnose what was wrong.

Any guesses?

[BlueXJ]

The usual Jeep problem of a bad ground. Question I can't answer is where the bad ground was found. Bad neg battery cable?

[Howler_GT]

The usual Jeep problem of a bad ground. Question I can't answer is where the bad ground was found. Bad neg battery cable?

Bad Ground....

Survey says:


X


Good one, but not the right answer.

All ground wires to engine were replaced several months ago. Along with BOTH BATT cables.

I will keep this thread active until a correct diagnosis is given.

[BlueXJ]

Guess I am the only one playing,.................bad battery.

[Melissa]

I'm going to guess temp sensor, cause I have no idea, but I wanted to play too

[Mudderoy]

Belt was loose.

[Dirt Dogg Rydas]

I'm going to guess temp sensor, cause I have no idea, but I wanted to play too

this would be my guess but I guess Mel beat me to it

[BlueXJ]

Wake up Howler you have more guesses.

[Howler_GT]

I'M AWAKE.

LOOSE BELT:

X

Last w/e I re-sealed the harmonic balancer. Belt was properly tightened.


COOLANT TEMP SENSOR:

X

This little item was replaced a few months back.


Keep thinking. These are all good "possible" fixes for this problem. But unfortunately, not in this case.

I will reveal the answer later this evening, IF someone doesn't get it.

[BlueXJ]

1)Loose or bad ECU connection. 2)Bad connection at rear of Gauge Cluster. 3) Bad ignition switch.

[Howler_GT]

1) x


2) x


3) x

You are determined.
Ya know, there is no prize for getting the correct answer

[Melissa]

Powertrain control module

[Howler_GT]

Powertrain Control Module:

X


Since the folks over at CF have basically ignored this thread, I will give you guys/gals the correct answer.

The diagnosis for the problem was

[Melissa]

Tease!!!! :D

[Melissa]

corroded battery terminals

Have I even been close at all??

[ol"blue]

I was going to say bad gauge cluster or connection at same, but Blue already guessed that.

[BlueXJ]

Howler would you like a ban for being a tease?? I am tempted!!

[Howler_GT]

Sorry for the delay. Had some personal business to attend to.

Before I blurt out the answer, allow me to give a bit more info on what I did.

I was able to start the Laredo w/o any problem OR long cranks.
I maxxed out the electrical system. This is EASY to do since it is a fully loaded Laredo.
HIGH BEAMS, Pr 100w driving lights, A/C, R Defroster, radio, both sets of wipers, brake lights and both sets of wipers.
Gauge read just above the lower red zone..roughly 10v.
If you stared at it long enough, it looked like it was slowly dropping.
I even hooked up jumpers from Lil Red, expecting the gauge to rise from the added voltage. It didn't.

This made me think it was the BATT.

I removed jumpers and popped the POS cable off the BATT and the motor INSTANTLY died. No sputtering or carrying on.

THIS made me suspect the ALT.

I then removed the BATT and installed it in Lil Red. Stared fine and Lil Red's gauge read 14V (Replacing the lost charge)

I said I had both the battery and the alternator tested.
The info I purposely left out was: I had them tested at my local AutoZone.

Had them tested TWICE. Both times they passed.

Since the BATT seemed OK in Lil Red, The ALT became the prime suspect.

Luckily, AutoZone had one in stock.

1hr later, everything was buttoned back up on the Laredo.
Fired it up.
NO CEL, gauge showed 13V. All lights were brighter than ever. Seemed to run smoother.

SO, the proper diagnosis was: Bad ALT despite passing bench testing.

Why I shared this...

I shared this to let others know that just because something passes "testing" there still is the possibility that it can still be BAD. Make sure you exhaust ALL other possible causes FIRST before throwing money at the problem.

Although, in our case, it was the most expensive part that went bad.

Told Mrs Howler when we left AutoZone, "I hope it IS the alternator."
"Why? that hunk of metal ran us over $115???"
"Simple, it was so much work to remove it, I don't want ALL that work to be in vain."


SIDE NOTE: ALT removal is a total P.I.T.A.

This thread over on CF had basically only 2 repies and is now on pg#3 forgotten. I am not going to reply to it with the answer unless someone asks.

[Melissa]

Sorry for the delay. Had some personal business to attend to.

Before I blurt out the answer, allow me to give a bit more info on what I did.

I was able to start the Laredo w/o any problem OR long cranks.
I maxxed out the electrical system. This is EASY to do since it is a fully loaded Laredo.
HIGH BEAMS, Pr 100w driving lights, A/C, R Defroster, radio, both sets of wipers, brake lights and both sets of wipers.
Gauge read just above the lower red zone..roughly 10v.
If you stared at it long enough, it looked like it was slowly dropping.
I even hooked up jumpers from Lil Red, expecting the gauge to rise from the added voltage. It didn't.

This made me think it was the BATT.

I removed jumpers and popped the POS cable off the BATT and the motor INSTANTLY died. No sputtering or carrying on.

THIS made me suspect the ALT.

I then removed the BATT and installed it in Lil Red. Stared fine and Lil Red's gauge read 14V (Replacing the lost charge)

I said I had both the battery and the alternator tested.
The info I purposely left out was: I had them tested at my local AutoZone.

Had them tested TWICE. Both times they passed.

Since the BATT seemed OK in Lil Red, The ALT became the prime suspect.

Luckily, AutoZone had one in stock.

1hr later, everything was buttoned back up on the Laredo.
Fired it up.
NO CEL, gauge showed 13V. All lights were brighter than ever. Seemed to run smoother.

SO, the proper diagnosis was: Bad ALT despite passing bench testing.

Why I shared this...

I shared this to let others know that just because something passes "testing" there still is the possibility that it can still be BAD. Make sure you exhaust ALL other possible causes FIRST before throwing money at the problem.

Although, in our case, it was the most expensive part that went bad.

Told Mrs Howler when we left AutoZone, "I hope it IS the alternator."
"Why? that hunk of metal ran us over $115???"
"Simple, it was so much work to remove it, I don't want ALL that work to be in vain."


SIDE NOTE: ALT removal is a total P.I.T.A.

This thread over on CF had basically only 2 repies and is now on pg#3 forgotten. I am not going to reply to it with the answer unless someone asks.


OMFG Howler, I should have known the problem, mine did almost the same thing, I had the alt out four different times, took it to four different places and it passed everytime, except the last guy said, wait a minute, did a little more to it, and ten minutes and fifteen dollars later, he changed out the brushes and it has worked ever since, now I feel really bad :o The answer was right in my brain, but I did not think to mention it!!!!!! I really did not think what I went through testing the battery and replacing it with three different batteries, testing the alt four times, and looking for the power drain source numerous times, was actually going to happen to someone else.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/melreese83/misc%20pictures/doh.gifhttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/melreese83/misc%20pictures/doh.gifhttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/melreese83/misc%20pictures/doh.gifhttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/melreese83/misc%20pictures/doh.gifhttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/melreese83/misc%20pictures/doh.gif

[Howler_GT]

Well, you are not alone NOW.

[whowey]

Does Autozone still do the 'green light/red light' tests?? Or do they have an actual output reading???

I had an alternator I could hear and feel a bad bearing in. But my wife took it to Autozone and they insisted on testing it. When it came back on their test as good they refused on honoring the warranty. I took it to O'Reillys. They are able to show the actual output there, I was able to get a print-out showing the output was no good. Then Autozone would warranty it.

[Howler_GT]

I usually don't have a problem with thier warranty return policies.

The last time they gave me grief i asked

"If I were to lob this through your front window and it ceased to work properly, is THAT covered under the warranty?"
That was over three years ago.

One nice thing is having two ALMOST identical vehicles that require the SAME part numbers. I just have to watch they dont require the same part too soon. :rolleyes:

And if they still give me trouble I just ask to have my 'NEPHEW' Frank wait on me. You know Frank...KausticKollapse :rolleyes: